Democrat Mayor Vetoes $15 Minimum Wage- Proving Dem’s Enemy Of Workers (Jimmy Dore video)

Advertisements

118 Responses

  1. Mexican cities are caught in an inflationary spiral, yet the minimum wage there remains three dollars an hour. On top of that, the business class whines “it would be too expensive” to pay its workers more. You should thank them for essentially catalyzing illegal migration (people breaking the law and even risking their lives to get paid slightly more), and they forget that their businesses would sell more if the population enjoyed more disposable income. Maybe they enjoy a good neofeudal power trip.

    • What I said about the U.S. government (below) applies equally to the Mexican government, since it can create infinite Mexican pesos out of thin air.

      However rich Mexicans don’t want that, since the poorer the masses are, the richer the rich feel.

      The sensation of being “rich” is relative, not absolute. If everyone around me has a million dollars, then I am not special. But if everyone around me has nothing, and I have a million, I am a god.

      Indeed, the core essence of neoliberalism is not to make profits, but to widen the gap between the rich and the rest. This is done by boosting my fortune and / or by depriving everyone around me. Your pain is my pleasure. The poorer you are, the richer I feel by comparison.

      • My own family called me “red” for pointing out the iniquities of neoliberalism, except for my outstandingly smart grandmother. They seem to be waking up a little.
        Not justifying it, but low wages probably don’t help contain piracy (a topic for another post).

  2. JIMMY DORE GOES KEYNESIAN. “The problem in our economy is that workers don’t have enough money. All the money’s being funneled up to the One Percent, and they don’t spread it around.”

    I emphatically agree, but raising the minimum wage isn’t enough, since it takes money from smaller employers. To get more money circulating (i.e. to increase velocity) we must increase the dollars in the (real) economy. This means we must increase federal deficit spending. That is, the federal government must increase the number of dollars it creates out of thin air, and puts into circulation, while making sure that all the dollars do not flow to the rich. Republicans (and most Democrats) oppose this “stimulus” because they want to widen the gap between the rich and the rest. That’s why they indulge in austerity mania. Your pain is their pleasure. The poorer you are, the more the rich feel “rich.”

    (cont.)

  3. OFF TOPIC

    New York and California may soon have a Single Payer health care system. These are scams, designed to further enrich the private insurance industry. They are a form of Obamacare, with mandatory payments to private companies.

    Since everyone wants “Single Payer,” private insurers pay people to organize marches for Single Payer at the STATE LEVEL, where your premiums and deductibles will forever skyrocket, just like with Obamacare.

    ANY SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM THAT IS NOT 100% FEDERALLY BASED IS A SCAM.

    Reason: the U.S. government can create infinite dollars out of thin air for Universal Medicare, whereas state governments cannot. (This is what the masses refuse to understand.) Therefore if state governments want to chip in money for a state-based system, they must reduce expenditures in other areas of state government. Not so with the U.S. government, which could lower federal taxes to zero and still pay for Single Payer.

    The insurance industry wants “Single Payer” at the state level, but opposes Single Payer at the federal level, since it would put the thieves out of business.

    • You make some interesting points and I agree with you about what the Fed can do but that doesn’t mean they should, nor that a nationalized insurance system is the best option. Very few countries, even those with successful healthcare systems, pursue that course. And all insurance companies are not the same (see: Switzerland) nor do for-profit companies necessarily ruin everything everywhere (see Germany, Australia). The devil is in the details.

      Not everyone wants single payer AT ALL. If they did, we’d have it by now.

      If we go to a federal program of some kind, it needs to be federally guided, not federally operated.

      The idea that printing money to accomplish any goals (even supposedly worthy one) is a good strategy seems to be a contradiction to the obvious, starting with devaluing currency and inflation.

      • right because we all know it’s the will of the people our corrupt congress critters serve, not the insurance lobbyists who pump hundreds of millions of dollars into their “reelection campaign” slush funds… right.

      • ah, and you want to privatize Social Security as well. Gee…didn’t see that coming

        “The Rise Up Theory of Economics, also known as The USA plan, advocates the best of both worlds: It redirects the payroll contributions presently paid by individuals and employers into personally-owned investment accounts that can grow into millions over the citizen’s working life. Instead of going to the government, the funds are invested in a unique USA (Universal Savings Account) in safe indexed stock funds that have historically been growing at over a 10% rate for the last 25 years and most importantly, the proposed enacting legislation would guarantee no reduction in benefits. The accounts will be backed by the government and insured against loss; in other words, all of the upside with none of the risk.”

        “Many people can’t manage their own money so the contributions still have to be involuntary.”

        Right. Mandated payments to Wall Street that will be guaranteed by government against losses. And trust me… there WILL be losses, wont there?

        and just look at the bullshit disinformation you use to justify doing this:

        “In essence, as Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute accurately points out, “Social Security is not an insurance program at all. It is simply a payroll tax on one side and a welfare program on the other. Your Social Security benefits are always subject to the whim of 535 politicians in Washington.”

        right. Paying into Social Security your whole working life is nothing and you’re not really getting back what you paid in like any other investment, oh no.. it’s “welfare” when you use it.

        And I tell you one thing, you do have a way of spinning Wall Street’s wet dream, don’t you?

        The infusion of over $100 billion of new investment capital into the stock market every month would be a powerful force against economic stagnation and provide capital to accelerate job creation”

        A hundred billion bucks a month pumped into Wall Street for those bastards who crippled the economy on purpose to do with as they see fit. Oh yeah, a big jobs creator that will be.

        yep. https://mrtapeguy.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/yes-its-time-to-replace-social-security-not-fix-it/

      • “mrtapeguy” writes, “Not everyone wants single payer AT ALL. If they did, we’d have it by now.”

        We don’t have it because most people falsely think that federal government finances are the same as private finances. Therefore whenever someone calls for Single Payer, he is shot down with the knee-jerk response of “How will you pay for it?” This response is legitimate when applied to state the state, county, or municipal governments (where Single Payer is unworkable). However at the federal level the U.S. government can pay for it with dollars created out of thin air, just as the U.S. government pays for all its other operations. If you receive a Social Security benefit, nothing physical moves. Instead, the U.S. government electronically instructs your bank to change the numbers in your bank account (i.e. to credit your bank account). This is one way the U.S. government creates money out of thin air.

        “mrtapeguy” writes, “If we go to a federal program of some kind, it needs to be federally guided, not federally operated.”

        I agree.

        • No, most people who object do not want to expand the reach of the govt , especially controlling their healthcare, especially at the federal level. Some of these fears are overblown, others are warranted. Everyone understands they’ll pay for it with taxes…and some don’t want to be responsible for other people.

          Single payer could work at the state level but would have to be properly budgeted. It’s true that deficit spending would be a challenge and in some states is actually illegal.

          Remember, the monetary system is supposed to represent money, not invent it. When you move money electronically, it represents cash…but because of the system, it can’t all be withdrawn at once under any circumstances and now, because it isn’t ALL there. But some is.

  4. Comment eaten by WordPress (178 words)

    • “ah, and you want to privatize Social Security as well. Gee…didn’t see that coming”

      You only see what you wish to see. Didn’t see that coming.

      It’s not privatization. It’s a government-guided public-private partnership. But I guess you want to turn healthcare into the UK’s National Health Service or the VA, with everything run by the government? Because that’s working out so well.

      And you might also notice the rest, illustrating how Social Security has poor returns even compared to Canada’s system, is unsustainable and you have NO legal right to your benefits because they are subject to the whims of the politicians you seem to believe are more trustworthy than Wall Street. LOL. Brilliant.

      >> “The proposed enacting legislation would guarantee no reduction in benefits. The accounts will be backed by the government and insured against loss”

      Google is great but reading is fundamental!

      “Right. Mandated payments to Wall Street that will be guaranteed by government against losses. And trust me… there WILL be losses, wont there?”

      Wall Street is not involved, nor are commissioned brokers. This would be a public-private partnership in a government-guided program.

      “and just look at the bullshit disinformation you use to justify doing this:
      “In essence, as Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute accurately points out, “Social Security is not an insurance program at all. It is simply a payroll tax on one side and a welfare program on the other. Your Social Security benefits are always subject to the whim of 535 politicians in Washington.””

      right. Paying into Social Security your whole working life is nothing and you’re not really getting back what you paid in like any other investment, oh no.. it’s “welfare” when you use it.”

      It’s not an investment. It’s a payroll tax paid by you, which is not set aside for you and doesn’t belong to you legally or logistically. The government converts it into debt notes spends the money, then pays you with the payroll taxes of younger workers. This is irrefutable fact and notice the sources link back to the Social Security website. You may not like the terminology but the financial facts are what they are.

      But we should stay with OUR system instead of say, considering even the Canadian system where they contribute 1/3 of what we do for the same benefit and it isn’t legally ours or guaranteed. Brillian.

      “And I tell you one thing, you do have a way of spinning Wall Street’s wet dream, don’t you?”

      You want to raise minimum wage so people can go spend money but you object to putting capital into the economy? Makes complete sense. And regardless, that is only a possibility – the point being, that giving people a safe, insured investment plan that is not available to either brokers, Wall Street or politicians and pays returns that would create wealth for the common man would be a beautiful thing.

      “A hundred billion bucks a month pumped into Wall Street for those bastards who crippled the economy on purpose to do with as they see fit. ”

      The money doesn’t go to Wall Street but I’m sure it makes you feel that your argument is more valid to claim that it does. Perhaps it’s better off in the hands of the 535 guys who keep giving our money to the military industrial complex. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

      • “But I guess you want to turn healthcare into the UK’s National Health Service or the VA, with everything run by the government? Because that’s working out so well.”

        right. the first step to privatizing anything is defunding that entity, getting trolls to run around saying “look it’s failing! we need Business to come in and save it” and then once the manufactured crisis is promoted enough in the complicit press… you send in the technocrats to chop it up and sell it off.

        funny you mention those two since they are both in the process as we speak. And of course, here you are saying “look at these failing institutions”

        you are a neoliberal troll. hell, you probably have a business peddling influence, don’t you?

        • Oh Scott, so angry all the time! So much name calling! Are you not capable of having a civil conversation with people you disagree with? Or is it just that I’m destroying your weak arguments? You mad bro?

          If you don’t want anyone who disagrees with you, no matter how politely, and consider them all trolls, why not just delete all disagreement and be done with it? We know how big “progressives” are on what used to be the liberal concept of free speech and diversity of opinion. #FAIL

          The quote you posted doesn’t even apply to what you’re saying. The point is that government isn’t the be-all end-all to everything and that has nothing to do that someone needs to make sure to rein in the excesses or abuses of the private sector. Think of it like a game – football, basketball, whatever. Do you want the teams to play and have penalties when they break the rules or simply let the officials run the entire contest?

          As far as my having a business peddling influence, if I were making money at it I wouldn’t waste my time with intractable bloggers such as yourself.

          • so why would you waste your time with intractable bloggers such as myself? you certainly have been here a while.

            ” The point is that government isn’t the be-all end-all to everything…”

            but you see, it is with your “public/private partnership” isn’t it? you’re Bigger Gubmint than I am. Government will MANDATE payments taken out like TAXES to pay to Wall Street and WHEN (not IF but WHEN) there are LOSSES… Big Gubmint PAYS for them, not the company running the public/private partnership… and that money comes from OTHER TAXES…

            and as for free speech.. are you not still here? lol… man, you are one cliche after another aren’t you?

            now if you don’t mind, I gotta run. Some general at the senate just said I am a Russian agent because I dared to be critical of criminal neoliberal fake progressive Hillary Clinton during the campaign so I gotta check my mailbox and see if my paycheck is in from Putin. what do they use for money over there? Rubles or sheepskin or chickens or something? I don’t know. gotta run. been fun.

            • I take time with guys like you because we all benefit from conversing with those we don’t agree with, even sourpusses like you. And target practice is fun. Your positions and claims are so completely indefensible it’s hilarious.

              But I don’t understand why you flat-out lie so much. Wall Street isn’t part of the equation for anything I’ve mentioned. Why do you keep repeating the lie? (straw man, remember?) Is it because your argument can’t subsist without misconstruing mine?

              [Scott’s edit: yes, except for the fact that you wrote on your blogThe infusion of over $100 billion of new investment capital into the stock market every month would be a powerful force against economic stagnation and provide capital to accelerate job creation” which means, YES, the money would be pumped INTO THE STOCK MARKET, a total of 100 billion a month.. ergo… you sir, are a liar]

              My “big gubmint” involves helping people invest their own money and ensuring it doesn’t get lost. Yours involves taking people’s money and spending it, then making other people pay it back. Big gubmint doesn’t “pay” when there are losses – it has insured them against dipping blow a guaranteed benefit when they retire.

              I would say this isn’t rocket science but apparently it is for you. LOL!

              This wasn’t about free speech, although you’re just about illiberal enough to oppose that – this was about your hostility to ideas contrary to your own. Sorry snowflake, here’s a cliche for you: what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!

              Das vidanya!

          • that’s not name calling. when you troll, and someone calls you a troll for trolling, then it’s quite understandable. do you understand, troll? its like if I am sitting here juggling while typing my responses and you call me a “damn juggler” then I cant complain cus that is what I was doing. if you troll, you’re a troll. not hard to figure out.

            • Apparently it’s hard for YOU. No one is here sowing seeds of discord to evoke an emotional response but YOU. But you and your loudmouth friends here call me a troll because I’ve invaded your safe space of ideas with something different. EXCEPT for Elizabeth, who is capable of having a conversation without being so angry and nasty.

              Have you considered therapy? Let it all out man! I’ll even contribute some of the money I take from my exploited workers!

              • BS! YOU, mrtepid, are the one pushing the tired old SS IS BROKE!!! chicken little the-sky-is-falling nonsense, citing the SS website when convenient while ignoring the simple fact that lifting the income limits restores it to full solvency. The rich of course hate that idea – and look who’s water you’re carrying? Yer a pretty lame troll.

                • Oh waaah! There is no argument that SS is broke – that is a well-documented fact. However, no one said the sky is falling. Wow, did Scott put out the call for still more straw man arguments?

                  Yes, raising the cap on contributions would make the program as it is last longer. That does not change that it is a fundamentally flawed program that gives poor returns and does not legally guarantee that you or anyone else can receive your benefit, nor make your earnings not subject to the whims of Congress.

                  I can assure you the rich don’t care that much about raising the cap – it doesn’t affect them. And I don’t hate the idea at all except it does nothing to improve the program. I think at minimum we should do what those right-wing Canadian bastards do…but that would mean contributing less and getting more and guys like you hate that idea because it counters your narrative and your economic ignorance.

                  If I’m lame, what are you?

      • “mrtapeguy” writes, “It’s not privatization. It’s a government-guided public-private partnership.”

        In one sense the USA is a public private partnership, in that we have a public government and a private society. But everyone knows that when neoliberals talk about a “public private partnership,” they mean private owners should have all the control and the profits, while the public bears the risk and the losses. “Public-private partnership” no longer deceives anyone.

        • Frankly, Elizabeth, I think it would be beneficial for you to stop dumping everyone into one bucket. It’s not productive and it doesn’t add substance to your argument.

          I can’t speak for “neoliberals” but no one I know means any such thing. Many on the right want very little government involvement and many on the left want tons of it. What reasonable people want is a balance. What that balance is depends on the industry – most reasonable people expect that the government would have slightly more involvement in healthcare and banking than say, retail clothing.

          But I will only speak for me and when I say public-private partnership it means exactly that: a program that harnesses the best of the free market (innovation, competition), with guidance to restrict the excesses. And because healthcare is so fundamental and advanced in many ways, it needs more guidance than most other things – but not the kind of regulation we’ve had up to now. The FDA? No thanks.

          • If the free market is so innovative and competitive, why do Bollywood and Hollywood produce more and more clichéd, artistically subpar films, while finer studios around the world languish in obscurity?

            • “If the free market is so innovative and competitive, why do Bollywood and Hollywood produce more and more clichéd, artistically subpar films, while finer studios around the world languish in obscurity?”

              Economics 101: Supply and Demand. Apparently the masses of people don’t all have such esoteric taste.

              “Most parents don’t teach their children about investing, and no matter your knowledge or skills, it always carries significant risks.”

              Yes, and that should change. But that’s why the Rise Up Theory is based on diverse, government-sponsored funds based on historical performance and would not allow anything speculative. To allow for fluctuations, a portion of the contributions would be used to insure against short-term losses. But you have to remember, this is not a short-term program. No one with a broad base of growing investment in diverse funds loses money long term and if only safe, diverse index funds are in play, someone who has been contributing since he starts working is going to retire with a substantial nest egg. It is the best of both worlds: growth with safety and a guaranteed minimum no less than current benefits (which will be far behind in the rear view mirror).

  5. And this is BETTER than YouTube, how exactly?

    The ignorance of people who advocate a $15/hour wage is staggering. If $15 is good, why stop there? Why not make it $50 or $100? Geez, the economy would explode, right?

    Of course, I haven’t found one who can tell me exactly where the money comes from. Maybe Jimmy can?

    https://ivn.us/2015/10/07/bernie-sanders-issues-examining-minimum-wage-equal-pay/

    • I agree! In fact, why not drop the current $7.25 per hour minimum wage to zero? After all, no one can explain where that $7.25 per hour comes from. By eliminating the minimum wage, we will cure poverty and make the economy roar. Plantation slaves did fine with no minimum wage. Slave laborers in prisons too. They have guaranteed work and lifetime “employment.” The minimum wage has not moved in 26 years. It’s time we changed it (to zero).

      Sarcasm aside, I agree that there is a problem with making smaller employers pay more in salaries and FICA taxes. Therefore I say that before we increase the minimum wage, we must first get more money into the economy via more government spending on things that affect average people, like infrastructure projects.

      If you oppose a minimum wage increase, how about having Universal Medicare? That would effectively be a pay increase for everyone except the insurance industry.

      • I would have no problem dropping the minimum wage, not because it makes or breaks the economy, but because everywhere I’ve ever worked or owned businesses, the market sets wages – and that’s not about “we want to pay those people as little as we can.” The cost of living varies from place to place, of course, which makes the whole idea of a federal minimum wage absurd…but I live in a town where you’d be lucky to hire part-time high schoolers with no experience for minimum wage, much less anyone else.

        No one is obligated to work for less than they feel they deserve at any place that isn’t willing to pay them.

        The idea that more government spending as a method of creating any kind of long-term solution is a Keynesian fallacy that is very shortsighted. I have no issue with infrastructure spending that is a) necessary and b) in the budget – not as part of some strategy to make the government a de facto employment agency…although I’d have no problem reinstituting the Works Progress Administration so that people who aren’t working can work or get job training rather than just receiving benefits for doing nothing.

        The reason this is a poor overall strategy is that it creates a never-ending cycle of increasing debt. It takes the tax revenue of about 4-5 private sector jobs to pay for one public sector job. That worker, in turn, only repays about 20-25% of that back to the treasury, so it’s financial quicksand. That’s why that kind of spending has to be part of the budget, not a “stimulus.”

        And while I don’t think minimum wage increases are best, I have much less problem with local governments choosing to do so because they are more nimble and along with surrounding communities, can see the effects more clearly.

        As far as universal Medicare, that is an entirely different topic but again, what I advocate is for access to affordable care for all Americans through whatever means we can accomplish it because it is a basic human necessity. There are a number of viable options of which a nationalized single-payer system is the least desireable and also politically challenging. But I wouldn’t do it in order to have the government give everyone a raise for the same reasons I stated above.

        • right. and if we drop the minimum wage it’ll sure be a lot easier for those workers to access that “affordable” healthcare you’re talking about, wont it?

          You’ve “owned businesses”? So you can certainly understand how someone in that particular tax bracket feels, right? I wonder, did you pay people minimum wage when you “owned businesses”?

          And if you don’t think “more government spending as a method of creating any kind of long-term solution” then you certainly aren’t paying attention to the gross profits of the military industrial complex, the Banker Bailout recipients or the record profits listed by Big Insurance after ObamaCare and that unconstitutional mandates, are you?

          Does that money “trickle down” to the workers? Of course not. It’s socialism for the right and savage capitalism for the working poor, aint it?

          And for the record, that 20-25% being paid back into the treasury by the workers is a hell of a lot more than Big Business pays back after they take advantage of all the tax breaks they already have (what do they pay on average now? 18% or less? Some big boys pay 0%)

          I mean, screw it right? Let’s get rid of OSHA and let the markets decided how many workers loose their hands and their fingers in uncompensated industrial accidents, right? And lets get rid of those business killing child labor laws while we are at it. And screw it man, lets let Big Business dump their toxic sludge in the Grand Canyon or in the Gulf of Mexico like BP did. Hell, if it’s good enough for the Brits…

          Shit man, let’s just go back to the Guilded Age why don’t we? Let the captains of industry run wild and make all the money they can… because, let’s face it… guys like us are in the Big Club, right? I mean, we are never gonna look back and say “damn, that was short sighted and naive of me… now I’m fucked”

          So screw it. Bring in the refugees, turn em into slaves. Sell em to Big Business by the truck load and let’s make America Great Again for the Billionaires and Captains of Industry.

          • “right. and if we drop the minimum wage it’ll sure be a lot easier for those workers to access that “affordable” healthcare you’re talking about, wont it?”

            Dropping the minimum wage does not mean workers are paid less and you’re talking about what, roughly 3% of the population? Not to mentions that’s a sidebar. Try to stay on topic please.

            “You’ve “owned businesses”? So you can certainly understand how someone in that particular tax bracket feels, right? I wonder, did you pay people minimum wage when you “owned businesses”?”

            Yes, I understand because I started there, my kids are there and regardless of what you think I understand, the facts of basic economics don’t change because you wish them to. My “owning business” means 30 years owning multiple small businesses including direct communication with 150 other owners of a franchise who are also small business owners. You can “put stuff in quotes” as an attempt to mock but it doesn’t make my experience less valid. And while I have myself earned minimum wage, I’ve never paid anyone minimum wage except college interns for one semester.

            “And if you don’t think “more government spending as a method of creating any kind of long-term solution” then you certainly aren’t paying attention to the gross profits of the military industrial complex, the Banker Bailout recipients or the record profits listed by Big Insurance after ObamaCare and that unconstitutional mandates, are you?”

            I oppose the MIC, the bailouts and Obamacare.

            “Does that money “trickle down” to the workers? Of course not. It’s socialism for the right and savage capitalism for the working poor, aint it?”

            It’s crony capitalism and regardless, trickle-down economics does not exist as a policy advocated by credible economists. It’s a political term used to paint caricatures of actual economic theory. The only people who believe in trickle down are those like yourself (I’m guessing) who believe the government should do the trickling.

            “And for the record, that 20-25% being paid back into the treasury by the workers is a hell of a lot more than Big Business pays back after they take advantage of all the tax breaks they already have (what do they pay on average now? 18% or less? Some big boys pay 0%)”

            Two wrongs don’t make a right. Claiming one type of fiscal insanity justifies another is silly.

            In addition, businesses do not pay taxes per se. Costs of doing business are passed on to the consumer (you might know this if you had owned a business – have you?) and we have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world which is one reason we’re finding it harder to compete and have problems with corporate inversions. Of course, I know what I do with all my profit and tax deductions – I hide the cash under my mattress so no one can have any but ME. Hahahaha!!

            “I mean, screw it right? Let’s get rid of OSHA and let the markets decided how many workers loose their hands and their fingers in uncompensated industrial accidents, right? And lets get rid of those business killing child labor laws while we are at it. And screw it man, lets let Big Business dump their toxic sludge in the Grand Canyon or in the Gulf of Mexico like BP did. Hell, if it’s good enough for the Brits…
            Shit man, let’s just go back to the Guilded Age why don’t we? Let the captains of industry run wild and make all the money they can… because, let’s face it… guys like us are in the Big Club, right? I mean, we are never gonna look back and say “damn, that was short sighted and naive of me… now I’m fucked”
            So screw it. Bring in the refugees, turn em into slaves. Sell em to Big Business by the truck load and let’s make America Great Again for the Billionaires and Captains of Industry.”

            You are very big on straw man arguments and angry sarcasm. No one said eliminate all regulations and laws so your hysteria and hyperbole are not only unproductive, they undermine your credibility when addressing reasonable people. What’s next – calling them deplorables?

            Regardless, our country was founded on the concept of individual liberty but also protection of individual rights and private property. Clearly, abusing people, property, etc. in the manner you describe doesn’t fall within those guidelines. But I’m always fascinated by people who can simultaneously argue the government is incorrigibly corrupt in one area but we can somehow uniformly force it to provide for our interests in a benevolent manner. I’ll have what you’re having!

            But if you wish to act as if everyone who disagrees with your ideas for everything to be decided top-down by the federal govt is an evil selfish bastard who wants everyone else to be a slave breathing dirty air, ad nauseum, that is your prerogative. I’m sure it’s a great consensus builder.

            But hey, I’m used to it. Some dude yesterday said the GOP health care bill was like the Final Solution. Carry on.

            • really? you opposed the bailouts? that’s funny because according to your blog, you want to privatize Social Security and hand over “100 billion a month” to Wall Street and Big Bankers with the government on the hook for potential losses. So I really don’t see that coming from someone who opposes Quantitative easing, TARP or the Back Door Bailouts that totaled over 2 trillion dollars at the start. I don’t see that at all.

              and you are going to lecture me about credibility? give me a break man

              • Again, bud…reading is fundamental.

                It is not privatizing Social Security. It is a public-private partnership.

                The money doesn’t go to Wall Street or bankers.

                The contributions would be insured against loss – kinda like the FDIC. Or do you keep YOUR big bucks under the mattress?

                I really don’t care about credibility. The facts are what they are, whether you like them or not. You rail against government corruption and then demand we hand things over to the very people you claim are screwing us now. OR you think someone else will be different, because some other politicians will be inherently benevolent and enforce YOUR idea of fairness.

                You know what sucks about too much control in the hands of govt, Jimmy? It sounds fantastic when your guy is at the helm but it sucks a big one when it’s someone you hate. #TrueStory

                • “It is not privatizing Social Security. It is a public-private partnership.”

                  hahahahahahahaha…. that’s funny. the difference being, when you fully privatize something, the business that takes ownership still runs a risk.. whereas the glorious “public/private partnership” does away with risks by privatizing the profits and putting all the loses on the dreaded state. Its EVEN BETTER for Big Business. Just like your article says, the losses will be covered by Big Gubmint…. lol… man you are funny.

                  how dumb do you think people are over here?

                  • So you think we should have everything run by the government? LIke turn our medical care into the VA or the NHS? Maybe we should have them make cars and computers and cell phones and grow vegatables and stuff.

                    How dumb do I think people are? Well apparently very dumb, to the point of cognitive dissonance. Listen Einstein, if the FDIC insures your deposits, is that BIg Gubmint? Why aren’t you whining about that?

                    Have you ever looked at a graph of the market? Long-term, the trajectory is always upward. That’s why regular people have 401Ks at stuff. That’s how the middle class more secure and the rich get richer. No one with a conservative, broad portfolio loses money long term – they ride out the short-term losses and that’s what insuring against those losses would be for. We’re talking about a LIFELONG strategy.

                    But instead, you’d prefer to stick with something that you’re not even legally entitled to receive so Congress can continue spending your contributions on the military industrial complex and then billing your children and grandchildren for your paltry retirement.

                    EVEN if you don’t like the Rise Up theory, which GUARANTEES no less than the current benefit, we could look at perhaps what the Canadians do. But no, we can’t have that! Some guy remotely affiliated with a private company or even Wall Street MIGHT make money too and that’s outrageous!

                    Yeah…pretty dumb.

                    • Nice how you ignore the historically proven lower administrative rates when government handles management rather than private insurers. And don’t use the VA as a counter, as it was set up to fail for a reason. Perhaps you can figure it out.

                      Twice now you’ve deliberately ignored facts contrary to your positions. Yer a lame troll. And you still haven’t explained how all this public/private partnership money will spur job growth without going to Wall St. Answer the damn question or go away.

                    • WAMTAFFY:

                      “Nice how you ignore the historically proven lower administrative rates when government handles management rather than private insurers. And don’t use the VA as a counter, as it was set up to fail for a reason. Perhaps you can figure it out.”

                      No, the rates aren’t really lower – they appear lower because Medicare covers the most expensive patients: the elderly and chronically ill such as those who need dialysis. Why don’t you know this?

                      “Twice now you’ve deliberately ignored facts contrary to your positions.”

                      No, you’ve just brought up new half-truths to try and bolster your argument but don’t really understand the economics.

                      “Yer a lame troll.”

                      Oh, you so mean. You hurt me with your insightful analysis! You mad bro?

                      ” And you still haven’t explained how all this public/private partnership money will spur job growth without going to Wall St. Answer the damn question or go away.”

                      Listen, Einstein. Even Sourpuss Scott had the initiative to go and cherry pick my article to attempt (and fail) to misrepresent what I said. And oh you’re not the boss of me, brave child hiding behind your computer. You want people to subsist on their Social Security benefits…that makes you a lot more lame than I. Read it and weep:

                      The contributions are sent to government-sponsored diverse index funds that have a long record of safe growth. Part of the contributions are used to insure against short-term downturns. The money doesn’t go to brokers or investment firms and unlike SS, the money belongs to the individual, not the government.

                      Even if you don’t like that idea (which you won’t because it contradicts your worldview), there are better ways like, again…Canada.

            • Ignore this neoliberal propagandist troll.
              Don’t you realize your ideology implies LESS rights for the non-rich?

              • Oh bluegreen2017 and you’re silly labels. I don’t even think you know what a “neoliberal” is. But it’s a good ad hominem for angry progressives such as yourself.

                And why is someone a “troll” for simply disagreeing. i haven’t been nasty or vulgar, unlike the road Jimmy is likely headed down. Because discussing the serious issues of the day is like standup comedy and should be treated as such! LOL!

                • Yer a troll because you try to ignore unfavorable facts and muddy the waters with BS rather than engage honestly. However, you’re quite well-versed in the “polite troll” approach (later weakened by your insults), so kudos to whoever trained you (except for the lame insults part, which kinda shows your “argument” is failing). BTW, economics is known as the “dismal science” for a reason – one you are proving unconsciously whether you realize it or not. Hint: much of it is smoke and mirrors so be careful who “makes sense” and why, because they often ignore important facts in their philosophy, much as you are doing now.

                  PS: Don’t expect more on this. You’ve tossed out enough bs, ad hominums and strawmen to have lost all credibility. And WTF, you don’t even know what an index fund is?!? HINT: It is competely tied to Wall Street despite your denials. And you expect to be taken seriously? Not a chance. Buh-bye.

                  • You have to run away and hide because you’re dishonest and you are ignorant of the facts, so you misrepresent them to suit your argument. It’s weak and you’d do well to educate yourself.

                    I’ve ignored NOTHING. You bring in something new and then claim I ignored what was never discussed previously. On what planet does that work?

                    I’ve debunked every lame argument you’ve made so now you’re butt hurt and you’re going to take your toys and run away. Too bad, so sad. You can dish it out but you can’t take it. It’s not my fault you’re an economic dunce.

                    I don’t expect anything from you. I’ve tossed out zero bs (can back up anything I say with documented fact), or ad hominums [sic] (that’s your MO, not mine) and I know what an index fund is. What you have ignored is that I said this would be a GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED fund, NOT one owned by a brokerage firm. Smackdown complete.

                    As I told Scotty, reading is fundamental – reading comprehension and retention, even better!

                    Bye-bye WamTaF. Have fun licking your wounds!

                    • While enjoying both sides of these arguments in the way one cannot look away while passing a car accident, I’m amazed at how childish this last response of your was. Almost as if you mad bro. It seems that you and most of the others on this site have different views on how the world operates, how it should operate, and what intrinsic value other people have or should have that don’t exist solely to feed your personal benefit. Different philosophies and you are very unlikely to see eye to eye on anything.

                    • Wow. childish.

                • As someone who’s experienced your “market laws” and “public-private partnerships” in person, I will disagree with you to the bitter end. Go somewhere else. You try living on minimum wage, and see why your suggestions are inhumane, social-Darwinist cruelties.

                  • I don’t think you even understand the concepts. Do you understand that Medicare is a public-private partnership? But you’d rather have the VA or the NHS. Makes complete sense. You will disagree with me to the bitter end because you’re so gahtdam bitter!

                    I’ve never suggested trying to live on minimum wage, nor should anyone else. I had my lean times and aspired to move past them. But please enlighten us and explain which of my suggestions are “inhumane” and why. The retirement program I suggest would allow people to retire at an average of 8x their annual salary, meaning even someone who was a minimum wage worker his entire life would retire a millionaire. Yet YOU would rather they get say, double the current minimum wage and still retire a pauper and then claim MY suggestions are inhumane.

                    LOL #Priceless

                  • “You try living on minimum wage, and see why your suggestions are inhumane, social-Darwinist cruelties. ”

                    I’ve done this, and as a result I agree with you.

            • the mistake you make here,how you show your true colors, is by suggesting the straw man argument that I back Big Gubmint and expect it to “trickle down” everything for everyone. I don’t believe in that at all and if you took just a little time to do a little research before lumping me in with whatever you think of the generalize “left” you would know that. Like I know about you since I just read your entire website in less than an hour. I particularly like the one where you ponder aloud about the Muslim men making their women wears such clothing. That was particularly enlightening.

              First of all, the video you watched was a comedian. Second, he was talking about how the Democratic Party BETRAYS the people they were SUPPOSED to be representing. which is a completely legitimate criticism of that that Baltimore mayor did and in fact, if you extrapolate like the comedian did, you will figure out just WHY he said it COST THE DEMS THE ELECTION.

              As for your opinions of other topics that I took liberties with, that’s not really exaggeration for the sake of humor… not really anyway… call it an educated guess. And despite your protestations I seriously doubt you put the “individual liberties” of workers above those of the owners and the corporations themselves. Of course, my guess is, your justification would always be the same as what you said about paying sickeningly low wages… a person can always go someplace else to work. As if that is the truth in the reality we find ourselves in.

              As for the GOP “health care” bill was concerned… in case you hadn’t figured it out, let me help you with that one… it was DESIGNED to offend EVERYONE because… ObamaCare was was written by the Washington Consensus on behalf of Big Insurance which pays the Dems their slush fund money and the Rethugs as well. Pays em both, don’t ya know. And so, they NEVER intended to pass anything… thats why they did it so quickly to keep it from being fresh on the minds of voters in 2018 and why they never allowed a VOTE on the damn thing so that congress critters didn’t have to actually go on the record. It was dead on arrival and there is no one to really blame by the voters.

              get it?

              as far as being “evil” is concerned… I don’t know you. I don’t even think Cheney or Milton Friedman were ‘evil”. I just think they are sociopaths. In fact I think Hillary Clinton is one as well. In fact, most neoliberals are for that matter. Are you a neoliberal? Sociopaths, in my uninformed view, were born without something that most humans have. “Evil” doesn’t factor into the equation.

              “Disabled” maybe a better term for it. “handicapped” sound better?

              so don’t put words in my mouth cus you might not like the real ones that come out afterwards.

              And for the record, I didnt put words in your mouth or create a straw man… I said “lets” do this and that, in case you have a problem with reading comprehension.

              • “the mistake you make here,how you show your true colors, is by suggesting the straw man argument that I back Big Gubmint and expect it to “trickle down” everything for everyone. ”

                Wow…you can dish it out but you can’t take it. You can engage in ridiculous hyperbole but if I overgeneralize a little you’re outraged. How progressive of you.

                “I don’t believe in that at all and if you took just a little time to do a little research before lumping me in with whatever you think of the generalize “left” you would know that. Like I know about you since I just read your entire website in less than an hour.”

                No, you don’t know me. Most of my work isn’t published on my website. LOL Keep digging.

                “I particularly like the one where you ponder aloud about the Muslim men making their women wears such clothing. That was particularly enlightening.”

                Yes, my thoughts often are. Maybe I should do stand up instead.

                “First of all, the video you watched was a comedian. Second, he was talking about how the Democratic Party BETRAYS the people they were SUPPOSED to be representing. which is a completely legitimate criticism of that that Baltimore mayor did and in fact, if you extrapolate like the comedian did, you will figure out just WHY he said it COST THE DEMS THE ELECTION.”

                I agree with you that the Democrats are not for the working people. I do not agree that opposing a $15/hour minimum wage is an indication of that.

                “As for your opinions of other topics that I took liberties with, that’s not really exaggeration for the sake of humor… not really anyway… call it an educated guess. And despite your protestations I seriously doubt you put the “individual liberties” of workers above those of the owners and the corporations themselves. ”

                Au contraire. All individuals have equal rights.

                “Of course, my guess is, your justification would always be the same as what you said about paying sickeningly low wages… a person can always go someplace else to work. As if that is the truth in the reality we find ourselves in.”

                I agree, and I don’t justify “sickeningly low wages.” I have never paid them and I don’t think anyone should work for them.

                “As for the GOP “health care” bill was concerned… in case you hadn’t figured it out, let me help you with that one… it was DESIGNED to offend EVERYONE because… ObamaCare was was written by the Washington Consensus on behalf of Big Insurance which pays the Dems their slush fund money and the Rethugs as well. Pays em both, don’t ya know. And so, they NEVER intended to pass anything… thats why they did it so quickly to keep it from being fresh on the minds of voters in 2018 and why they never allowed a VOTE on the damn thing so that congress critters didn’t have to actually go on the record. It was dead on arrival and there is no one to really blame by the voters.
                get it?”

                Yup.

                “as far as being “evil” is concerned… I don’t know you. I don’t even think Cheney or Milton Friedman were ‘evil”. I just think they are sociopaths. In fact I think Hillary Clinton is one as well. In fact, most neoliberals are for that matter. Are you a neoliberal? Sociopaths, in my uninformed view, were born without something that most humans have. “Evil” doesn’t factor into the equation.”

                That’s encouraging. You may be right about Cheney – Friedman, i’d tend to disagree. Hillary? Curious…not sure.

                I consider myself a classical liberal with a shot of pragmatist but I know the term “neoliberal” is the new progressive pejorative used for people that pretend to be progressive but aren’t and therefore they hate them even more than conservatives. If you must have names to call me, I’d still with that – or you can consider me a libertarian-leaning independent…whatever floats your boat. But notice I have previously not mentioned any classifications I need to put you in because, as I’m so fond of mentioning, the facts are the facts.

                ““Disabled” maybe a better term for it. “handicapped” sound better?
                so don’t put words in my mouth cus you might not like the real ones that come out afterwards.”

                Oh dear. Should I cover my screen?

                “And for the record, I didnt put words in your mouth or create a straw man… I said “lets” do this and that, in case you have a problem with reading comprehension.”

                I don’t – but now I understand it was comedy gold. Thanks for the clarification.

                • This may biol down to whether other peoples’ lives have intrinsic value that belongs to them or they should exist for the purposes of those who are smart enough to exploit them. You mentioned earlier that this country was founded on the principals of liberty. Sort of. Not really. Much of that came a bit later. This country was founded on the principal of the liberty of a very few to own very many others as slaves and to profit from them.

              • Oh and one other thing I should let you know: I am an official representative of the Zionist Jewish Rothschilds Bankster Illuminati Freemason New World Order Globalist Cabal. So tread lightly or else!

                • I’m sorry… do you assume we assign a religious sect to trolls in general… or are you such a cliche that you have decided to turn toward the old stand-by of accusing me of being a “conspiracy theorist” to try to win your argument?

                  • No, I made a joke and confirmed that you’re quite the humorless little bomb-thrower. Lighten up, Francis.

                    And by the way, you might want to acquaint yourself with the meaning of the word troll:

                    “a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages”

                    Sounds as if you’re understanding of that term matches your grasp of economics. Oh – and physician, heal thyself. It’s not my fault you don’t know how to play nice or call people names because don’t agree with you.

                • @ mrtapeguy, You provided a link to an article you seem to agree with. I responded to that article here (at bottom)…
                  https://monetarysov.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/comment-re-minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-515

        • Thanks for your response. Some quick thoughts…

          [1] Without laws against murder, we could not have a civilized society. Likewise, without laws regarding minimum wage, we would not have a U.S. economy, since workers would not be able to afford bus fare, let alone pay for rent, food, etc. High unemployment (caused by neoliberalism) sustains a surplus of labor, such that without minimum wage laws, desperate workers would undercut each other until they were willing to toil for 10 cents an hour or less. Federal laws ensure a nationwide rock bottom that employers cannot violate. Even though 10,000 people apply for each job at McDonald’s, there is a legal limit to how badly workers can be exploited.

          You say, “The market sets wages.” Yes. Just as “the market” set the “wages” of plantation slaves. (cont.)

        • Thanks for your response. Some quick thoughts…

          [1] Without laws against murder, we could not have a civilized society. Likewise, without laws regarding minimum wage, we would not have a U.S. economy, since workers would not be able to afford bus fare, let alone pay for rent, food, etc. High unemployment (caused by neoliberalism) sustains a surplus of labor, such that without minimum wage laws, desperate workers would undercut each other until they were willing to toil for 10 cents an hour or less. Federal laws ensure a nationwide rock bottom that employers cannot violate. Even though 10,000 people apply for each job at McDonald’s, there is a legal limit to how badly workers can be exploited.

          You say, “The market sets wages.” Yes. Just as “the market” set the “wages” of plantation slaves. (cont.)

          • I responded on your page but I’ll cc here:

            “Without laws against murder, we could not have a civilized society. Likewise, without laws regarding minimum wage, we would not have a U.S. economy, since workers would not be able to afford bus fare, let alone pay for rent, food, etc.”

            False equivalency. Murder is a violation of individual rights. No one has the right to take your life without your permission. On the other hand, working is a voluntary contract between the worker and the employer.

            “High unemployment (caused by neoliberalism) sustains a surplus of labor, such that without minimum wage laws, desperate workers would undercut each other until they were willing to toil for 10 cents an hour or less. Federal laws ensure a nationwide rock bottom that (in theory anyway) no employer can long get away with violating. Even though 10,000 people apply for each job at McDonald’s, there is a legal limit to how badly workers can be exploited.”

            There are many causes of unemployment. The economy is largely cyclical but it certainly isn’t caused by “neoliberalism.” I suggest some basic economics theory starting with, you know…supply and demand?

            “You say, “The market sets wages.” Yes. Just as “the market” set the “wages” of plantation slaves.”

            The market didn’t set wages. Slave wages were set by a racist populace who didn’t recognize the rights of slaves to the same individual rights they gave everyone else. Further, no one is talking about an essentially undemocratic economy where 100% of the power is in the hands of an oligarchy and the workers have no recognized rights and NO laws to protect them or the ability to pursue restitution. It’s not a black-and-white scenario that radical progressives like to portray: if you believe in the free market then you must believe there should be no laws except to protect fat cats, which is absurd.

            “People are obligated by circumstances such as their need to eat. In your fantasy, “No one is obligated.” In my fantasy, humans care for each other to a minimal extent.”

            There are compelling circumstances in which people take jobs that perhaps don’t pay enough. That doesn’t mean they have no ability to train, earn more, move or see other opportunities. Again, it is not a black-and-white scenario.

            “With all due respect, your comments about government spending are too erroneous and self-contradictory to merit a response. (You don’t want the government to be an employer, and yet you do, via WPA-style programs.)”

            To review, I said the government should not be a defacto employer because it simply creates more debt. I also said if we are already spending money on entitlements such as the safety net, i would rather see those people put to work or receive job training. Capeche?

            “The U.S. government creates its spending money out of thin air, simply by changing the numbers in bank accounts. Hence the U.S. government has no need or use for tax revenue (unlike state and local governments). People who do not understand this do not understand economics. No one rich or poor should have to pay federal taxes. (State and local taxes are a different matter.)”

            I completely understand how money is created since we abandoned the gold standard. However, that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to create money out of thin air in order to fund the federal government. To what end? The Fed should be ended and we should operate the federal govt, as any other, based on real money

            [4] I am confused by your comment regarding Universal Medicare. You seem to both favor it and oppose it.

            I do not think universal Medicare is the best idea and it is not the most popular or successful form of universal healthcare. It works decently in some countries (Australia) but I have little faith in our government to administer it well and prefer other systems such as Switzerland. Regardless of what system we choose, if we don’t address why the cost of care is so high in this country, it doesn’t matter what direction we go.

            I will be addressing necessary market reforms next week but I’ve also researched systems that work and those that don’t. All things need to be considered – that’s how they make decisions before pursuing the best strategy in the evil private sector you hate so much.

            https://ivn.us/2017/03/28/10-reasons-why-fiscal-conservatives-should-reconsider-universal-healthcare/

            “Thanks for visiting and commenting.”

            You’re welcome. Civil dialog is a beautiful thing.

            • I responded at the other blog (so as not to overload this one).

            • Why don’t you try the marvelous liberalized private sectors of Honduras, Haiti, Lebanon, Somalia or Indonesia? I mean, you claim to be such a self-made man. Prove yourself!

              • “Why don’t you try the marvelous liberalized private sectors of Honduras, Haiti, Lebanon, Somalia or Indonesia? I mean, you claim to be such a self-made man. Prove yourself!”

                Yeah, cause that’s what I said. Why don’t you live in Cuba or China where you can have all of your basic needs taken care of by the benevolent public sector?

                Two can play at that game sparky.

                • The same China that has beaten the U.S.A. at its own capitalist game, the new biggest creditor, exporter and manufacturer? You pretend to care about facts, but you don’t.
                  As you said, we’re obstinate, try to convince other people. You are done here peddling your influence.

                  • That’s not all true but regardless, how is that even relevant? I was referring to countries that provide everything. Stick with Cuba if you prefer – you’d apparently love it there because they’ll take care of you.

                    I don’t come here to convince anyone of anything. Unlike you, I’m not resentful about having my views challenged and I don’t get angry when I’m proven wrong. That’s how we grow as people…well, how the rest of us grow anyway. You? Not looking good. : )

      • Looks like a Cato Institute staff paid us a visit!

        • Ad hominems are always fantastic when you have no facts on your side. ROFL Perfect.

          • I don’t speak Latin but wouldn’t the plural form of hominem be hominae or something like that? And what does ROFL mean?

            Anyhoo, what’s the going rate for entry level trolls these days? And is it hourly or piece rate? With the economy in the toilet these last forty years, I’m thinking about getting into the troll market myself. Do they let you work from home? Benefits? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Guy!

            • @Edgar

              I don’t speak Latin either but it’s just an Americanized version. There is debate over what Latin plurals should be. As for what does ROFL mean, if you’re serious, you really need to get out more.

              I wouldn’t know what the going rate for trolls is. What’s the going rate for braindead illiberal progressives who can’t come up with a salient argument so they default to calling people trolls?

              Who says the economy is in the toilet? Are you still stuck at your minimum wage job? Some of the rest of us are doing fine. That’s just the way we troll!

              • you’re not simply a troll; you’re a snake-oil salesman. i’ve heard that same right-wing garbage for years about why it’s ok for multi-billion dollar industries to employ adults full-time but not pay a living wage. ’cause it’s all about freedom, right? but at the same time you’d like for people to believe there’s no need for a minimum wage — priceless.

                i don’t expect someone like you to understand the folly & fundamental lack of decency in your beliefs, but the working poor know better.

                • While we’re at it, adolescents who work and pay taxes also deserve some slack.

                • “you’re not simply a troll; you’re a snake-oil salesman.”

                  Don’t you intellectual midgets have ANYTHING in your arsenal besides calling everyone you disagree with a troll? Jeez, to get so butt hurt because someone calls you ought on your resentful class envy and provides alternative solutions. How sad you are!

                  “i’ve heard that same right-wing garbage for years about why it’s ok for multi-billion dollar industries to employ adults full-time but not pay a living wage. ’cause it’s all about freedom, right? but at the same time you’d like for people to believe there’s no need for a minimum wage — priceless.”

                  I didn’t say there was no need for a minimum wage. That’s debatable and depends on the market but it’s not a core issue for me at all. What I said is that I don’t think it’s reasonable to pay a federal $15 wage and certainly any minimum wage should be decided locally, not federally.

                  So what WOULD happen with no minimum wage? All the poor people would starve?

                  But what you can’t comprehend (shocking, really) is that people who oppose the minimum wage don’t do so because they think poor people should be paid less – they believe the market should and does set wages, with some caveats. But you would have everyone being paid the same regardless of education, skill level, work ethic, cost of living or anything else. What reason would there be to acquire more skills and aim higher? What would happen to entry-level jobs?

                  “i don’t expect someone like you to understand the folly & fundamental lack of decency in your beliefs, but the working poor know better.”

                  Less than about 3% of U.S. workers actually earn minimum wage. It’s meant to be a starting point, not a destination. But you don’t comprehend lack of decency because the only thing you understand is that anyone who disagrees with you, even when they can factually demonstrate ways to lift the poor up out of poverty better than higher minimum wage, is a selfish bastard.

                  • you’re recycling the same garbage that’s largely responsible for the worsening state of our nation and you have the nerve to call anyone an “intellectual midget”? yeah, let’s try more of the same failed policies that put more people in poverty with fewer jobs to go around. that’s why i called you a “snake-oil salesman” — because that’s exactly what you are. it’s not “class envy”, jackass — it’s awareness that there is & always has been a war waged by those who have against those who don’t. and it seems the “haves” always have idiots like you who will back them up — until hard times come to YOUR door.

                    what YOU don’t seem to comprehend is that big business will try to make any & all profits they can, whether it means paying a low wage in the u.s., or moving somewhere they’re free to pay a worker $2 per day. you also don’t seem to understand that there ARE many people suckered by your kind of thinking who absolutely DO begrudge their neighbors a living wage if they can look down their noses at their particular work (“well, they just work fast food, after all”).

                    i never said everyone should be paid the same regardless of education, skill, etc. what i said is that adults employed full-time should be paid a living wage. but you think what — that a 40 year-old working at burger king is “entry-level” and that he’s paid $9 per hour to get him to “acquire more skills & aim higher”? man, are you clueless.

                    i never called you a “selfish bastard”. but i will say that — in addition to being a snake-oil salesman — you are a fool canvassing for pigs.

                    • “you’re recycling the same garbage that’s largely responsible for the worsening state of our nation and you have the nerve to call anyone an “intellectual midget”? yeah, let’s try more of the same failed policies that put more people in poverty with fewer jobs to go around. that’s why i called you a “snake-oil salesman” — because that’s exactly what you are. it’s not “class envy”, jackass — it’s awareness that there is & always has been a war waged by those who have against those who don’t. and it seems the “haves” always have idiots like you who will back them up — until hard times come to YOUR door.”

                      What same policies am I advocating? Please explain how anything I’ve said results in more people in poverty and fewer jobs. It’s been demonstrated (and I have actually spoken to many owners at least one franchise with 150+ owners) that an artificial “living wage” WILL result in hours being cut. Where is it that you think the money for the living wage will come from? The owner’s money tree in the back yard?

                      You don’t even know what you’re talking about and then you just continue your name-calling because you have no facts to back you up. I’ve been through hard times and it didn’t change my views; in fact, I used to think more like you, sans the angry accusations of all of you illiberal progressive bigots who truly believe that the haves desire to keep the have nots down. Fiscal conservatives believe in lifting up the poor by creating better opportunities, not by forcing small business owners to double their cost of labor. It’s economic insanity but you have to actually do the math, which people like you refuse to do.

                      “what YOU don’t seem to comprehend is that big business will try to make any & all profits they can, whether it means paying a low wage in the u.s., or moving somewhere they’re free to pay a worker $2 per day. ”

                      I’m sure there are businesses somewhere that might if they could – and I’m not advocated for an unregulated free-for-all. But when you realize how few people work for minimum wage in this country already, the idea that anyone can get away with that is ludicrous and not based on fact.

                      “you also don’t seem to understand that there ARE many people suckered by your kind of thinking who absolutely DO begrudge their neighbors a living wage if they can look down their noses at their particular work (“well, they just work fast food, after all”).”

                      Uh…okay. Gee, I’ve never known anyone like that but whatever you say. They’re suckers I guess!

                      “i never said everyone should be paid the same regardless of education, skill, etc. what i said is that adults employed full-time should be paid a living wage. but you think what — that a 40 year-old working at burger king is “entry-level” and that he’s paid $9 per hour to get him to “acquire more skills & aim higher”? man, are you clueless.”

                      No, you are, because how many 40-year old men are working at Burger King? The FACTS don’t support your narrative: As of 2013, just under 60% of all U.S. workers are paid hourly, according to the BSL. An estimated 4.7% of those hourly workers make minimum wage or less. About half of those work in the leisure and hospitality industry, mostly in restaurants and food service where they earn tips and commissions. Finally, and importantly, most are young, single, and lack a high school diploma. So how many of them are 40-year old men working at Burger King and why would he be?

                      It should go without saying that education and the motivation to succeed will do more to ensure people aren’t living in poverty than raising the minimum wage.

                      “i never called you a “selfish bastard”. but i will say that — in addition to being a snake-oil salesman — you are a fool canvassing for pigs.”

                      I don’t sell snake-oil; I simply present facts and just because you don’t like them doesn’t make them any less accurate. But tell me again, if a business owners is forced to increase his cost of labor by 50-100% or more, where does the money come from?

                  • “So what WOULD happen with no minimum wage? All the poor people would starve?”

                    Just objects in a strategy game. Like it’s all on paper. They don’t exist in reality. They’re variables in an equation. You’ll never feel their pain.

                    Like you said earlier – something about different worldviews. You will probably never see eye to eye with most readers here.

      • I tried to respond to “mrtapeguy,” but WordPress kept eating my comments. So I will respond below. (Includes cartoons)
        https://monetarysov.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/comment-re-minimum-wage/

  6. Where did he come from? Cato?

    And you, elizabethharris001, I think, should somewhat nuance your spiel on “infinite money availability”. There is something missing in your argument. It can be easily debunked and ridiculed. And I am sure you know it.

    • Try me. Please debunk and ridicule it. Go ahead.

      Dollars are infinite. The U.S. government can create more dollars than there are grains of sand in all the beaches and deserts of this world, and all other worlds.

      Is there a limit to how many points can be added to a scoreboard? No. A sextillion, septillion, octillion, we can create as many points (and dollars) as we wish, simply by changing the numbers.

      All our lives we are programmed to not understand that the emperor has no clothes. Money (like points, and like the emperor’s clothes) is not physical.

      • If the government-subsidized perks of congressmen are good enough for Ron Paul’s family, why don’t other people have a right to public infrastructure and services?

      • Are you by any chance advising Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe? Your theory of infinite money supply (TIMS) is still relatively modest and not sufficiently far reaching. Why not allow everybody to write as many zeros on their dollar bills as they wish? Get away with the big gov monopoly on money supply. Let’s make the process truly democratic. And to the truly indigent ones issue just one dollar bill, so they won’t be excluded from creating their own infinite wealth. Do you think in late 1970’s and in 1980’s the gov. of Poland was too stingy with money supply and that’s why the shelves in grocery stores were well supply with vinegar only but nothing else? How would your TIMS if properly implemented work for them?

        Listen, good woman, I hope you are just insincere because otherwise I must conclude that you are intellectually lazy who hasn’t thought things through. But if you can be sincere demonstrate that you can think things through. Otherwise just stop that nonsense and shut up.

        • It is you who are intellectually lazy. Run along now. The adults have things to discuss.

          • Infinite dollars to not equate directly to infinite food, infinite safe shelter, and infinite and immediate agreement about who gets access to these things first. The number of dollars available will not change that, it will just move the number of digits required to obtain these things.

  7. This entire “discussion” about economy is simply idiotic…

    On the red corner, Mister tape guy is arguing that people should be free to determine who they’re gonna rape, or by whom they’re gonna be raped, depending on which side of the orgy one is born into… On the blue corner, the argument seems to be that there need to be regulations as to how much and how often those same exact people will rape and the same exact people will get raped.

    All economic systems work well!!!!! Provided that it is allowed to function without CORRUPTION!!!! Without coercion… and with a certain level of empathy for the fallen, and those who are born into poverty.

    What exactly is the virtue in defending or arguing against either one of these ideologies, while trillions upon trillions are siphoned out of the economy by extrajudicial, international crime families, banks and gazillionairs who are deeply bothered that there are too many people on the planet at the moment? What does it really matter if the people get a minimum wage or not when those same people will go and vote for the same political establishment that has robbed them off their hopes, will allow the same disconnected ruling class to send them to wars, and trust their future to the same vulture capitalists bankers?

    No matter what one may think about different economic policies and ideologies, this nation is equipped with enough laws, rights and entitlements, checks and balances, courts, lawyers, judges to protect the little guy!!! But, we still live in a place where petty thieves get locked up for a decade, while those who steal, bribe, swindle trillions and write new laws to amass even more wealth, create wars and drop bombs on people to get their resources, impose sanctions and embargos on nations suffocating their population, killing their children….

    So, what fuckin’ economic policy are you teaching us here exactly, tape man????

    Whether you are a troll is not relevant… but whatever your stripes and ideologies are, one thing is for sure… you are big douchebag! And that ain’t no ad hominem. It’s my opinion! In fact, it is my educated>/b> opinion, because I have dealt with your type all my life. You have not experienced any hardship, never worried about your next meal or your kids’ safety. You lack empathy! Other people’s suffering or weaknesses make you feel better about yourself. You are condescending… Which is also one of the main traits of people of your persuasion. (And I have documentation to back all this up)

    Do you have other areas of expertise you’d like to be a douche about? Because you are here to educate, right?

    • “This entire “discussion” about economy is simply idiotic…”

      You’re right about that!

      On the red corner, Mister tape guy is arguing that people should be free to determine who they’re gonna rape, or by whom they’re gonna be raped, depending on which side of the orgy one is born into…”

      Thank you for proving your last statement. You guys must get together after hours and pass ridiculous straw man arguments around. There’s some dumb stuff on this thread but that one takes the cake.

      “On the blue corner, the argument seems to be that there need to be regulations as to how much and how often those same exact people will rape and the same exact people will get raped.”

      LOL

      “All economic systems work well!!!!! Provided that it is allowed to function without CORRUPTION!!!! Without coercion… and with a certain level of empathy for the fallen, and those who are born into poverty.”

      “Gee, we kinda agree on that.

      What exactly is the virtue in defending or arguing against either one of these ideologies, while trillions upon trillions are siphoned out of the economy by extrajudicial, international crime families, banks and gazillionairs who are deeply bothered that there are too many people on the planet at the moment? What does it really matter if the people get a minimum wage or not when those same people will go and vote for the same political establishment that has robbed them off their hopes, will allow the same disconnected ruling class to send them to wars, and trust their future to the same vulture capitalists bankers?”

      And we kinda agree on that.

      “No matter what one may think about different economic policies and ideologies, this nation is equipped with enough laws, rights and entitlements, checks and balances, courts, lawyers, judges to protect the little guy!!! But, we still live in a place where petty thieves get locked up for a decade, while those who steal, bribe, swindle trillions and write new laws to amass even more wealth, create wars and drop bombs on people to get their resources, impose sanctions and embargos on nations suffocating their population, killing their children….”

      And that.

      “So, what fuckin’ economic policy are you teaching us here exactly, tape man????”

      Just the facts. The economic truths I’ve discussed here are not irrelevant because of the things you mentioned. We can still address the military industrial complex, the prison industrial complex and other issues you mention but that doesn’t change economics. They don’t become irrelevant because of the things you mentioned.

      “Whether you are a troll is not relevant… but whatever your stripes and ideologies are, one thing is for sure… you are big douchebag! And that ain’t no ad hominem. It’s my opinion! In fact, it is my educated>/b> opinion, because I have dealt with your type all my life. You have not experienced any hardship, never worried about your next meal or your kids’ safety. You lack empathy! Other people’s suffering or weaknesses make you feel better about yourself. You are condescending… Which is also one of the main traits of people of your persuasion. (And I have documentation to back all this up)”

      Physician, heal thyself. You know NOTHING about my background or my income. So I really don’t give a rat’s ass if some presumptuous twit calls me names while hiding behind his computer. Everyone one of you immature little babies has had to go down that road: troll, jackass, douchebag…LOL..why do you think I give a damn what you intellectuals think? You’re clueless about economics and steeped in your class envy, bigotry and hate…so it always ends up like this. And then you call ME condescending….ROFL .

      You have no documentation of anything about my life or what hardships I’ve faced. So just but a sock in it – you can’t refute the facts so you attack me personally.

      “Do you have other areas of expertise you’d like to be a douche about? Because you are here to educate, right?”

      There is none so blind as he who will not see.

      • there was no “reply” option under your last message to me, so i’ll do it here.

        where would the money come from? evidently you don’t understand that many of these industries (and the top 1%, etc) are making more profits than ever. these people are taking more & leaving their employees with less. but you still want to go on about “class envy”?

        i used a 40-year old fast-food employee as an example because i recently spoke with a 47-year old woman employed in such an establishment. that age group may not be the majority in that field, but they’re there. my point was regarding their not making a living wage while employed in a multi-billion dollar industry. but your attitude regarding their wages is more-or-less to deny that adults work such jobs or to basically say “well, how did they wind up working there — they probably didn’t finish school, they should seek more education, etc” — which is entirely beside the point as to whether someone should be able to support himself working a full-time job. hell, the $9/hr made by those workers is still better than minimum wage, but do you really think you can pay for an apartment, car, etc with that kind of money?

        so i stand by what i said before: you’re a snake-oil salesman and a fool canvassing for pigs. but i’d understand if you identify more as a douche — as dave hazan suggested above.

        • “where would the money come from? evidently you don’t understand that many of these industries (and the top 1%, etc) are making more profits than ever. these people are taking more & leaving their employees with less. but you still want to go on about “class envy”?”

          That doesn’t answer the question but it confirms what I already know: you have no clue what you’re talking about. I already proved we’re talking about a tiny percentage of the population but yet, you’re concerned about how they’re being exploited by big business. You apparently have no clue that small businesses make up 99.7 percent of U.S. employers. But let’s focus on those big corporations!

          And if you’re going to demand employers pay more, perhaps you should get out your pencil and do some math and learn what a small business owner has to do.

          As an example, take an actual retail franchise with over 150 stores that aims for owner profit to be 20%, from which the owner must compensate himself and pay off any loans. Cost of labor is also around 20% and many part-timers in high school or college may start in the $8-9 range whereas others earn more.

          On gross sales of $500,000, the owner expects a profit of $100K to pay himself and any debt — not poverty, but hardly a king’s ransom for a 60+ hour workweek and supporting a family.

          He has fixed costs such as rent. You are going to force him to nearly double his labor costs, so where does the money come from? The pie is not any bigger; the slices have simply been cut into different sizes.

          If he raises prices to attempt to increase income, can he remain competitive? Does he reduce advertising, which might hurts sales? Does he take it out of his own pay?

          Where does the money come from? These are real life decisions that have to be made by people whose life savings are invested in their business and rely on them for income. If the workers choose to move on to another job, it’s no skin of their nose. A business owner can lose everything. So decide what he’s going to do.

          “i used a 40-year old fast-food employee as an example because i recently spoke with a 47-year old woman employed in such an establishment. that age group may not be the majority in that field, but they’re there. my point was regarding their not making a living wage while employed in a multi-billion dollar industry. but your attitude regarding their wages is more-or-less to deny that adults work such jobs or to basically say “well, how did they wind up working there — they probably didn’t finish school, they should seek more education, etc” — which is entirely beside the point as to whether someone should be able to support himself working a full-time job. hell, the $9/hr made by those workers is still better than minimum wage, but do you really think you can pay for an apartment, car, etc with that kind of money?”

          Again, this is a small number of people but those I know who are working lower wage jobs are all doing it as a stop gap while going to school or aiming for something better. They share an apartment or house and love modestly, even get temporary assistance if needed. If someone has to work that job I hope it is not a career choice. I certainly think anyone who works should be able to survive and although they’re not below the poverty line, it is difficult. I would hope they would have a goal of finding a more lucrative position.

          “so i stand by what i said before: you’re a snake-oil salesman and a fool canvassing for pigs. but i’d understand if you identify more as a douche — as dave hazan suggested above.”

          Like I said, everyone of you little sourpuss crybabies has little more to offer than attacking me personally because you get nowhere peddling your ideological tripe that you peddle to satisfy your class envy without having any clue about what it’s like to run a business or have any knowledge of basic economics. So I don’t really care what you think of me because facts are a bitch and you’re clearly allergic to them. IT must be very frustrating when you can’t justify your bitter animosity so you simply retreat back to calling me names every time. Sad.

          • what’s sad is your repeated & lame attempts to peddle your bullshit on this page.

            i never claimed that most people are employed by big corporations. i simply used them as the obvious example of the growth of wealth disparity. but defending that status quo is your particular snake-oil, isn’t it? and your indifference to the effects that has on working people in the real world is just one thing that makes you a douchebag.

            • Oh, you called me a douchebag too. You guys are super creative! Maybe that’s why you’re all so ANGRY and resentful. Maybe if any of you had any actual ideas or insight you’d be appreciated by someone other than the other rancid commenters here. And it takes all of you to complain about me but not ONE of you has a single fact to prove you’re arguments have any validity. So just keep calling me names. That’s all you got.

              When you are beating your chest for a $15 minimum wage focus your argument on the overpaid CEOs, you’re ignoring the vast majority of employers. DUH. That has zero to do with “defending the status quo.” It has to do with understanding that when you advocate for a policy that’s going to affect all employers, you MIGHT want to understand those effects! But that doesn’t seem to enter your mind.

              There’s a reason why John Adams said “ideology is the science of idiots.” And you’re proven it.

          • You are a troll. You have too much time on your hands by posting here. Go somewhere else and do something useful. Employ yourself for 50% of the minimum wage to help economy by helping the business owners.

            • In my own blog I sincerely tried helping “mrtapeguy,” but he has mental issues. He’s handicapped, and he insists on remaining so. Thus, no one can help him.

              • Apologies for not listening to the warning “Don’t feed the trolls”. My bad.

                • You can’t feed the troll because you can’t answer any argument with a salient point. Not ONE of you has the stones to counter any of my arguments with any facts or data or jack shit. You’re like a bunch of little angry victims sitting at home behind your computer with zero understanding of economics and nothing but your hate for anyone who disagrees with you to go on.

                  You can’t win the argument so you just defer to insults. You lack the courage of your convictions and it’s sad.

              • *I* have mental issues? ROFL. #Priceless. THIS from someone who believes that the government creates $4 trillion every year out of thin air and doesn’t spend tax revenue. Even someone else on this blog pointed out that your claims are demonstrably false. That’s aside from your blanket generalizations where you made claims that there is data proving that wealthy people don’t care about others and put most of their efforts into making sure the gap between them and the poor increases. Geez, even Marx wasn’t as much of a hater as you.

                AND, you further believe that the government could cease taxation and instead, simply create the money they need to provide “universal Medicare” and whatever else they do without causing inflation or devaluing the currency. Fascinating, Captain.

                You make numerous claims that can be proven to be factually wrong and yet, you persist in saying that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is living in the Matrix.

                Maybe we should round up a few therapists and let them read your comments and mine and see who they think is closer to mental illness. Wanna make a wager on it? : )

                • It’s fun to watch you squirm in impotence. 🙂

                  • I’d say it’s fun to peddle ridiculous theories with no basis in fact but it’s really not. I hate to see people who are delusional and unwilling to admit they even MIGHT be wrong. But your childish insults tend to make me less sympathetic. Oh well.

                • Seriously, it’s a common issue, and nothing to be ashamed of.
                  This may help you…
                  https://www.dred.com/uk/viagra-without-prescription.html

                  • First you whine about how I’m hyperbolic and insulting while parroting nonsense that is…wait for it…hyperbolic and insulting, all in a narrative that is not based on fact and is, rather, demonstrably false.

                    Then you simply lower the bar even further than everyone else here, others of whom don’t even endorse your theories.

                    Seriously, Liz – is this silly misandrist barb all you got? Surely you can do better than that.

                • I’m learning three things here:

                  1. I don’t agree 100% with either side of this argument.
                  2. I do agree that making blanket and dogmatic statements about systems as complex as a national economy is silly, and to assume there is a small group of people who really control everything is even sillier (not that there are not those who try).
                  3. Which side of this argument I lean more towards depends heavily on how much I’ve had to drink while reading.

            • And you are a coward. Say something useful or STFU.

              I don’t have to employ myself for minimum wage – I was done with that after college. Now I employ dozens of people, none of whom make minimum wage.

    • Excellent comment. I agree.

  8. Well, looks like this article set off some alarms, emotional or otherwise, what with minimum wage increases being a hot-button labor issue in which the workers recently achieved some gains. So others are freaked out and losing it, periodically making yet more impotent efforts to disrupt. No biggie. Notice it was the usual bag of trollery tricks. The neatest deflection was the smugly paternalistic “hey we really agree on most things so just listen to my wise educated words: PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS WILL WORK!!!!”

    That seems so familiar for some reason.

    • I prefer to understand the question(s) rather then know the answer(s). So, here is a question: Who will suffer from a minimum wage of $15/hr? Who would suffer from a minimum wage of $30/hr? Could it be that the person(s) that would have to sacrifice for their employees to earn $30/hr would need to reduce themselves to the equivalent of $100/hr instead of the the $5000+/hr that top executives in the USA get today?

      • Crank:

        “So, here is a question: Who will suffer from a minimum wage of $15/hr? Who would suffer from a minimum wage of $30/hr? Could it be that the person(s) that would have to sacrifice for their employees to earn $30/hr would need to reduce themselves to the equivalent of $100/hr instead of the the $5000+/hr that top executives in the USA get today?”

        How many employers are top executives earning $5000/hour? I would guess not many, although if you took 100% of the executive compensation of all Walmart’s top brass and spread it amongst the other employees, they’d all get a raise of $50/year. So it’s more complicated than that.

        Still, you asked a fair question and we can look at big corporate fatcats or we can look at small business, which constitutes 99.7% of employers in this country. Not too many of them are raking in millions while oppressing the proletariat. In fact, I posted some numbers earlier and asked the intellectuals here to suggest where to cut the fat. Not surprisingly, I got crickets. Perhaps you’d like to try.

        Take an actual retail franchise with over 150 stores that aims for owner profit to be 20%, from which the owner must compensate himself and pay off any loans. Cost of labor is also around 20% and many part-timers in high school or college may start in the $8-9 range.

        On gross sales of $500,000, the owner expects a profit of $100K to pay himself and any debt — not poverty, but hardly a king’s ransom for a 60+ hour workweek and supporting a family.

        He has fixed costs such as rent. If he is forced to nearly double his labor costs, where does the money come from? The pie is not any bigger; the slices have simply been cut into different sizes. If he raises prices to attempt to increase income, can he remain competitive? Does he reduce advertising, which might hurts sales? Does he take it out of his own pay?

        How does this owner and others like him adjust?

        • “Perhaps you’d like to try.”

          Actually, no, I wouldn’t. I was asking a question, not trying to answer it. Thanks for answering with information rather than insults. I think your answer made some sense, actually.

    • WamTaFfy: “The neatest deflection was the smugly paternalistic “hey we really agree on most things so just listen to my wise educated words: PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS WILL WORK!!!!”

      You mean the smugly paternalistic deference to facts, don’t you? What exactly do you think Medicare is? What do you think the Canadian Pension Plan is? What exactly do you think the best healthcare systems in the world are? (Switzerland, Australia, Germany) So the reason it’s the usual bag of tricks is that myopic “non-trolls” like yourself have no clue what you’re talking about so someone has to set you straight.

      So what exactly IS your problem with public/private partnerships? I think I’ll faint if you can come up with something…ANYTHING other than calling me a troll. In the meantime, since you seem to have strong disdain for the private sector, is it safe to assume you’d be happier if the government simply took over all industry? That way you wouldn’t have to worry about any stinkin’ public/private partnerships, right?

      • Next time, it’s best to look for another blog to write what you think. In fact, as I read your texts, I get the idea of ​​you being obsessed with responding to another way of thinking that is not yours. Why not look for a greedy capitalist to talk about what you and he thinks. I almost bet the conversation would be better. Here, you are merely another good provocateur.

  9. TO ALL READERS: As you know I don’t ban folks very often, but as WAMTAF put it in one of his comments to mrTROLLguy:

    “Yer a troll because you try to ignore unfavorable facts and muddy the waters with BS rather than engage honestly. However, you’re quite well-versed in the “polite troll” approach (later weakened by your insults), so kudos to whoever trained you (except for the lame insults part, which kinda shows your “argument” is failing)…You’ve tossed out enough bs, ad hominums and strawmen to have lost all credibility. And WTF, you don’t even know what an index fund is?!? HINT: It is competely tied to Wall Street despite your denials. And you expect to be taken seriously? Not a chance. Buh-bye.”

    couldn’t have said it better myself. Say buh-bye to mrTROLLguy.

    • LOL
      buh-bye Troll !

    • The whole episode was weird. Oh well. The fly has been swatted.

      • Actually, I thought the arguments between you guys and mrtapeguy were entertaining and even a little informative. Instead of banning him, maybe people could just stop responding once the argument drops to nothing but insults. Just because people here don’t agree with him doesn’t mean it’s not worth listening to a different opinion and simply disagreeing with it. It’s healthy to get a couple of different opinions in here once in a while because your group tends to be so aligned in their thinking to the point of being dogmatic.

  10. if i thought it worth my while i’d be halfway tempted to troll his page, lol.

  11. This mrtapeguy seemed very stubborn in the end. He also seemed very convinced of his arguments. I think that Scott did well in getting rid of him. People like mrtapeguy are always annoying and coming back for more.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: