The Webster Ambush: No Motive, No Source for the Guns, Perfect Escape Route Via Lake Ontario and Canada

by Scott Creighton

UPDATE: Here’s another interesting thing: during the police statement, the officer tells residents of the area that 89 homes had their doors kicked in while the police were still doing a sweep for the shooter. Well, these doors were kicked in long after the shooting was over and Spengler’s body had been found. They didn’t kick in the doors to 89 homes before looking over that berm where the shooter had been picking them off from. And that is where they found Spengler.

So who were they looking for? Is that the cops’ way of telling us they were looking for another shooter… the real shooter?

UPDATE: According to a police statement delivered yesterday, shooter was armed with a Bushmaster .223 equipped with a flash suppressor. He was in the location I described in the earlier article, up on that hill “next to a tree”. His sister was found dead in the home and there is a note… type written. Whether is was signed and where it was found is undetermined. The officer says the letter does not clarify motive.

A CNN interview with a neighbor suggests William had a good relationship with his neighbors, going to their homes for picnics, and was attentive and loving to his mother but that he certainly did not like his sister. The neighbor states that his sister wasn’t friendly at all.

Spengler’s former neighbor, Roger Vercruysse, said that Spengler was a nice guy who used to come over to Vercruysse’s sister’s house for holiday parties and would wave to the family from his front porch, where he often sat during the summer.

He’d come to our house, we used to have picnics,” he said.

Spengler was especially attentive to his mother, who passed away in October, Vercruysse said, visiting her every day in the nursing home where she lived until she died.

“He loved his mama,” Vercruysse said. “He always talked about his mother.”

Spengler did not share the same closeness with his sister, with whom he shared his home, Vercruysse said.

“He told me he hated his sister and never could tell me why,” he said. “I’d always wave to the sister, but she was not friendly.”

And now we are too believe that this nice guy who visited his mother in the nursing home everyday and who liked his neighbors and was invited to their homes, suddenly for no reason decided to burn down his neighborhood, the homes of those friends of his, and kill local firefighters?

The note provides no motive. We still have no idea where those guns came from. The assault weapon had a flash suppressor attached to it in order to make it more difficult for the pinned down victims to target the shooter and return fire (as if he knew it was standard practice for the fire department to send a local cop to every call) and as the officer said, the shooter was moving east along the berm, as if he were on his way to the section I described and possibly a waiting craft on Lake Ontario. The guns are still not traced back to him or anyone else that I know of as of yet.

——————

When I first looked at the location of the Webster, New York ambush I thought to myself “Well if you are going to set up an ambush with a built in escape route, you couldn’t do better than this”

Right behind the berm where the shooter of was set-up is Lake Ontario and the beach where William Spengler’s body was found.

From that location someone could cover both access routes onto the island, one street, for quite a ways and then after the cowardly ambush, they could easily get away in a waiting boat on the beach. They wouldn’t have much to worry about behind them because the only property back there is a restaurant which was certainly closed at 5 am in the morning.

I thought about all of this last night but didn’t write about it because details had not emerged about where the shooter had been found other than to say he had been found “on the beach near his home”

Today that changed: he was exactly where I figured he would be and was found with guns that were not traceable to him.

“The 62-year-old convicted felon had apparently set a trap, luring in first responders and then firing on them from atop an earthen berm.” NBC News

“We’re assuming he was shooting from a high ground advantage on a berm near the home,” said Chief Gerald Pickering. “He had set himself up with his weapons to shoot the innocent responders.” I-Team

“Spengler lay in wait outdoors for the firefighters’ arrival, then opened fire probably with a rifle and from atop an earthen berm, Pickering said. “It does appear it was a trap,” he said.” Huffington Post

Below are three images taken from Google Earth of the location in Webster NY. You will notice if you look at the Google Earth app that it is located on an inlet pass so there is no other way in or out of that spot, the ambush, other than that road which could easily be observed by the shooter in the location he chose.

It is the perfect spot for an ambush and exit. Strange how a guy would pick that location who intended to kill himself and had no combat training.

This is the overall view of the location:

ambush

This is the home which was set on fire which was the bait for the firemen:

house ambush

And this is the street view of the berm in which the shooter was lying in wait.

ambush setting

Beyond that picnic table is presumably where the body of the suspect was found. As you can see, the berm itself not only provides an elevated shooting position to the assassin, but also it blocks the view of the lake so pinned down fire fighters and the off duty officer could not see someone making an escape onto Lake  Ontario. Even the raised camera of the Google Street View vehicle can’t see over it to the lake behind.

The suspected shooter of course is dead so there will never be a trial or a real investigation.

This shooter is a bit different than the others of late in that he had a violent past some years ago, but nothing, not one single run-in with law enforcement since.

His mother died recently and left a note that donations could be made to the local fire department. Thus, they are trying to spin that as the motive, but it hardly makes any sense.

His sister lived in the home with the suspect and they didn’t get along according to reports and of course she too is missing.

A big stickler for this story is the fact that no one knows where the guns came from.

“Spengler was a convicted felon and thus was not allowed by law to purchase or possess firearms. A source tells News10NBC that authorities do know the identity of the person who the guns are registered to and are now trying to determine how they got into the hands of Spengler.” I-Team

The death of the mother and his history of violence will certainly be spun as the motive behind this ambush but that’s thin at best. The guy never even showed up on any law enforcement radar since getting out of prison so why suddenly target local firemen with a gun that seems to have magically appeared in his hands?

The fact that he doesn’t own the guns himself definitely serves the purposes of the gun-grabbers out there. They can say it’s not enough to keep felons and crazies from buying guns because of this. They can say they have to remove them altogether from the communities since they can get their hands on them other ways.

I can’t help but think about the 3 cops killed in an ambush bombing attack in Italy back during the start of Operation Gladio. There is something especially vile about killing public servants and kids.

There is no way to fully understand the sorrow of the families of those two fallen first responders especially considering it’s Christmas. Perhaps William Spengler simply went off for some unknown reason and decided to target these men because of some note in his mother’s obituary. But I find it hard to swallow that it just so happened to take place, in a circumstance like this one, at a time that is so completely overcharged politically for a change in our rights and even the constitution itself. I find it hard to believe he would set it up so skillfully and find the exact kind of guns various interests wish to do away with. And then just stop shooting and kill himself, back behind the berm where no one could see him do it.

I find all of that hard to believe but what I do know is that there are families out there suffering right now, this holiday season, and to them … there are no words.

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74 Responses

  1. Great work exposing the binders full of patsies! Did you ever do a breakdown of Accent Signage Systems?

    • I don’t remember why I didn’t look at it closer. I should. Maybe it was his wife or whatever working there or maybe witnesses saw his face… I can’t remember. But you’re right, I should take a peep at it.

  2. The rifle is the same kind of assault weapon used in the Dec. 14 school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.

  3. These holiday massacres are starting to freak me out. There are usually a few lose ends, but with these there are far too many. And look what these insane people in Arkansas are doing:

    /¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

    http://www.allgov.com/news/controversies/arkansas-town-to-unleash-swat-style-force-to-patrol-streets-question-citizens-121219?news=846527

    “[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck,” Stovall said, according to the Paragould Daily Press. “If you’re out walking, we’re going to stop you, ask why you’re out walking, check for your ID.”

    Citizens who don’t comply may be charged with obstructing a governmental operation, according to Stovall. For “people who buck us…we are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail,” he promised.
    \____________________

  4. Perhaps the ¨real¨ perp. did not know enough about the sister to make up a motive, he certainly would not try to attempt a handwritten message… but then again perhaps in a few hours the letter contains a very clear motive or then we will be told that there was no letter to begin with, or…

  5. They found a paper letter? Couldn’t have found it in the burned up house…. unless paper has transformed into a fire-proof item….
    must have been attached to his dead body? How very ‘tidy’ of ‘someone’.

  6. Spenglers ¨history of violence¨ included killing his grandmother with a hammer for which he was incarcerated for 17 years and what that means in terms of upcomming politics is best explained by al-jazeera – right?

  7. Hmm, kill children, then unsuspecting firemen to manipulate people into giving away their assault rifles? That’s quite suspicious that they’d kick down 89 doors. But what do I know of police procedure? How would they have known who they were looking for anyway? You’re bound to find some people in their houses. Probably would find people who owned guns too. So what/who were they looking for?

    • They were ordered to do it , probably…. an effort to create fear…
      so,if there were no guns… then people then there would be no reason to kick in doors….. and evacuate people….
      they shot people in the theater (James Holmes’ story) and the police did not kick in people’s doors or evacuate homes…..in an entire neighborhood…. yet they did suspect a second shooter….

    • They were looking for the guy who shot 4 of their volunteer firemen and killed 2 of them. Clearly they didn’t think it was Spengler

      • Police also swept the entire mall after the Aurora shooting. But that proves nothing either. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was framed and murdered, but we don’t have much to go on. They’re getting better and better at these operations.

        • yeah, they swept the mall at Aurora because several witnesses described a second shooter wearing something other than what Holmes was found in and they saw a gas mask all the way at the end of the building 60 yards away from where Holmes was found…

          … they had a reason to keep looking and if you remember, they even reported that they were looking for a second suspect in the first two days of the investigation.

          starting to see a pattern developing?

          And of course, since you bring it up, Holmes had the exact same motive didn’t he and by they I mean he had no motive at all just like Adam Lanza.

          And since you mention it, they were looking for another suspect in the early stages of that case as well because several witnesses said they saw two guys running past the gym towards the woods.

          starting to see a pattern now?

          and uh, sorry, but we do have a lot to go on… in fact, in those two cases, we have more to go on than the official story.

        • The person they announced they were looking for in the Holmes case was a “second person of interest”, which was Yeom Pyo Lee. He was the one who supposedly sent threatening messages to Aurora PD, which they ended up determining were “routed electronically through his phone” (not sure who has that capability…).

          In all of these cases they appear to search for another suspect. Then when they don’t find anybody, they decide that in order to not look weak, that it was a “lone gunman”.

          • Not really, after the feds get involved and submit the official story.. the local police report it was a lone gunman.

          • No. The second person they were looking for on the scene while Holmes was in custody was the person witnesses said was running in the back of the theater building wearing a gas mask. The person was mentioned multiple times by various police on the radio transcript.

            You know, maybe.. just maybe… the cops on the scene were smart enough to hear that report, find the second gas mask at the end of the building where witnesses saw a guy running, and put 2&2 together themselves. Maybe that is why they were still looking for the shooter for hours after Holmes was in custody.

            Maybe that and the fact that Holmes was so drugged up they figured there HAD to be another shooter.

            You seem to forget a lot

          • There were actually 3-4 gas masks found behind the theater. And potentially duplicate armor as well if James Holmes was brought in to jail wearing his armor as one second-hand account reported.

            No, I don’t forget much at all about these cases. Including the mention on the Connecticut Police Scanner about 2 potential suspects in a purple van wearing ski masks, one in a nun costume. Meanwhile everyone’s going crazy talking about Chris Rodia, which is most assuredly a red herring in the case.

            What I’m saying is we need hard evidence if we’re going to pin this back on the real criminals. The fact that police did a thorough search after already finding “their guy” is circumstantial evidence at best that they knew someone else was involved. Speculation may put our minds at ease about being aware of what actually happened, but it does nothing to convict (and stop) the real criminals.

            • The other gas mask was a breathing apparatus, a self contained breathing system, left behind by first responders. That is the red herring. The gas mask at the end of the building marked as evidence is hard evidence.

              So is the lack of video surveillance tapes (China released the video of the knife attack yesterday… see how that works?) at Aurora, Sandy Hook, and the Sikh Temple shooting. That’s hard evidence as well.

              Chris Rodia is an easy one to figure out. Simply ask that guy who saw them arrest someone and bring them out of the woods if it was Chris Rodia, show him a picture. That could be hard evidence. Or have someone actually trace the license plate in the state and see who it is registered to. That’s hard evidence.

              That’s how investigations work. You find something, you research it, you ultimately confirm or reject it.

              The second hand account of what Holmes was wearing is rather suspect if you ask me. Is that the guy who claimed Holmes confessed to him or the police employee they put in a cell next to him that claimed he confessed to her? Get my drift?

              And yes, the police searching for the shooter AFTER finding Spengler’s body is circumstantial but that does not mean it isn’t important as you seem to think. Talk about red herrings, then you are talking about LIBOR connections and SSRIs which there is absolutely no evidence of. Those are disinfo red herrings. The hard evidence in this new case that we are capable of seeing, I have certainly covered: the careful planning of the shooting scene providing the shooter with a way out, the fact that the guns are not his and now they say they have traced them but will not tell us where they came from, the lack of motive, the TYPED (and possibly unsigned) “confession” letter, the fact that he liked his neighbors and was friendly to them and for some odd reason decided he wanted to burn down all their homes, his flash suppressor on the gun which would keep someone from shooting back at him as if he knew that police would accompany the fire department to the call, and yes, the fact that the local police were still looking for the shooter long after finding Spengler’s body… that is all relevant evidence to this attack.

          • I haven’t talked about SSRIs or LIBOR other than posting a video by Ben Swann regarding LIBOR (which was inconclusive but showed Adam Lanza’s father worked with 3 people who went to prison). It is also unproductive to suggest any of the witnesses, victims, or family members are actors.

            I don’t think it’s fair to call any physical evidence a red herring. Especially if you’re just going to chalk it up to “being left by emergency personnel”. You realize that’s what they say about the gas mask left at the corner too, right? The fact is that it’s highly unusual for ANYTHING to be left at the scene by emergency personnel since they are personally responsible for it (it comes out of their pocket). Pair that with the fact that James Holmes’ gas mask was described as “non-standard”, and it could mean that the breathing apparatus was what they actually found him in.

            Yes I agree the account of James Holmes being brought strapped-in to a wheelchair wearing his armor is not from a reliable source. Rodia I do not know what to make of. If police don’t explain why Lanza was using his car that’s a red flag. I still do not understand why you don’t even acknowledge the police scanner report of the 2 people in the purple van. I guess the mention of one in a nun costume shies you away from it?

            You have done a good job pointing out the anomalies in this firefighter shooting. And I agree that CCTV footage being withheld from these events makes them highly suspect.

            • so you think the shooter was also carrying the local police riot shield that was laying about 4 feet from the breathing apparatus? You think that is possible or do you think a cop left that behind?

              How about the spine board left under the car? You think the shooter brought that one along with him as well?

            • let’s see.. a purple van with two people wearing ski-masks on their faces driving down the road and one is dressed in a nun costume. Hmm… yeah, that’s how I would dress and what I would drive if I wanted to blend into the scenery after a mass casualty event.

              do you really need to ask why I don’t mention it? you sure do though

          • Well clearly the spine board had to have been left by rescue personnel. Who knows about the police shield. I’m merely pointing out that you are being inconsistent by saying one gas mask HAD to have been left by rescue personnel while another is “hard evidence” of an accomplice. And again, there were 2 normal gas masks left nearby the car along with the breathing apparatus, but these are some of the things you choose to overlook (like the 2 suspects in the purple van in Sandy Hook).

          • Ok so you think these 2 potential suspects were planted red herrings?

            You don’t think that maybe they’d leave on their masks in case someone could connect them to the crime? And maybe one of them being dressed as a nun was how they got into the school to begin with? And that being dressed as a nun would be a great way to discredit anyone from suggesting they were involved? Also I’m getting very tired of your attitude, I have been very respectful with my opinions.

          • Yep, by asking you to fix it. Oh I forgot, your blog can survive without its readerbase. Despite what you think, you are not always right. And you could certainly do some things to help your credibility. Dropping ridiculous nicknames like “President Peace Prize” and “Killary” would be a good start.

            • yeah and you could stop using the troll technique list of ways to win arguments and influence readers, make you a little less obvious. But you go ahead and stick with your “nun in the ski-mask in the purple wagon” story. I’m sure it does well for you.

              and since you didn’t get the hint…

          • Gentlemen….

            A jungle saying advises me to climb up the biggest tree when elephants start to run…

            So it may be unwise for me to step in here, but…

            CUT IT OUT!!! BOTH OF YOU….

            Go do something else for a while, bring yourself to “walking speed” and come back to dish it out… Without the snarky remarks…

          • What troll technique are you referring to? Expressing my opinions?

          • In case you didn’t realize, I’m one of the better contributors on this site (albeit not financially as I’m in the same boat as you). I’m sorry I don’t always agree with you, but I’ll be the first to admit I’m not always right. I merely consider all possible angles. And if having one of the shooters dress as a nun afterwords was enough to throw you off the scent, then CIA mission success.

            • nope. not taking the bait. there are other readers hiding up in the trees. You see CIA guys in nun’s costumes with ski-masks driving the Mystery Van… more power too you. Personally, I think that is sillier than President Peace Prize doing the Tango with Killary, but to each his own. taking a break. later

          • It was suspicious enough they reported it on the police scanner. They even followed up on it later saying they were seen dumping something in a trashcan. Supposedly someone called into Alex Jones (I say supposedly because I couldn’t stand listening to him for 3 hours to find the call) saying there’s a rumor among the school staff that the shooters were dressed as nuns. Planted disinfo to discredit the alternative media? Possibly. But it could also just be designed to scare them away, too. It’s just something to ponder.

          • Thank you.

            I am proud of both of you elephants :D

          • Me too, my tree was getting a little shaky…. couldn’t find a big one and this here tiny one could barely hold my weight…. I was hanging on by sheer luck… almost fell on top of them-there elephants…. I believe I could have been crushed….. :(

          • Thanks for the arboreal support, Jan 10 :)…

            Now that they are nowhere to be seen (either at the watering hole taking mud baths, or basking in the Florida or Colorado sun) I thought I would add:

            The fact that I follow this blog regularly, and post comments occasionally, should make what I think and feel about Scott’s writing and research quite obvious I suppose. (And, no, I am not an operative of any kind keeping an eye on this blog… I just have an email alert set up for every entry to keep an eye on the discussions)

            And, I’ve enjoyed Kiwasabi’s presence and contributions ever since I met him (so to speak) shortly after the Holmes affair, and have found his input very sharp in general, and invaluable at times, which is more than I can say for many loiterers who leave knee jerk and hollow comments. So, I would hate to see him driven away from this blog.

            Kiwasabi, my friend… Scott is what Scott does…. This does not make him right every time, nor does it make him a “pleasant person” all the time… Not to mention that he is a single person, who, like the rest of us, has good days and bad. I suppose the freedom Scott enjoys by choosing to be the sole moderator of his own blog cuts both ways.

            I agree with you that you have never been disrespectful, and never “not smart or knowledgeable” with your comments. So, I am hoping you won’t let a gas mask here or a skiing nun there stand in the way of all this good.

            I am looking forward to reading both of your future comments… At least until all of us contrarians are placed in reeducation camps, and our internet privileges are revoked… ;)

          • I appreciate your support Lilaleo and Jan10. We definitely need to stick together if we’re ever to fully uncover the truth and expose these criminals. This was something that was brought up on Abovetopsecret a bit. We shouldn’t allow ourselves to fight over whether it was a missile that hit the Pentagon, bombs, if there was a flyover, etc… We should agree that it *wasn’t a plane* that caused the damage and work from there. We can all agree Aurora was a false flag, as well as Sikh Temple, Sandy Hook, etc. That’s what’s important.

          • kiwasabi, I was supporting both Scott and you…..
            if I had fallen off my little tree branch, into the middle of the fight, both of you would have clobbered me with your feet…
            in fact, if it had come down to choosing sides, I would have to agree with Scott… a purple van draws attention in any city….
            and a nun walking into a school…. the teachers would have noticed and the kids… someone would have said… that they saw a nun at the school…. and wearing a ski mask? A dark maroon car or van seems almost black… and you have to look twice to realize it is deep maroon.but a purple van! I believe it was an attention getter…

            Yes, I do enjoy your comments…. and I look forward to Scott’s comments and his keen eye on seeing through the mud to find a path.

          • Alright well I will stick to the James Holmes case then as there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to go off of with Sandy Hook.

            • The Mystery Wagon with the CIA assets dressed up as a nun with a ski-mask on is the ONLY thing you see that’s a problem with the Sandy Hook story?

              • It appears to me that the crime syndicate who executed this op utilized local dirtbags. Rodia for example. And whoever else George Uzar Sr. sacrificed for the task. After all, he made a plea deal and is on the streets as we speak. So, a dark maroon van is not so out of the ordinary for low lifes.

                Also remember it was reported to have had its back windows shot out.

                We have photos of the substitute teachers green 4 door sedan with bullet holes in it, and it was parked far away from the entrance in the second row.

                So there was a shoot out in the parking lot, as the scanner feed reveals.

                And how about this dirtbag….

                BATF raids gun store where Nancy Lanza “bought her guns”.

                The raid comes less than a week after 20-year-old Adam Lanza shot and killed 20 children and 6 adults with a Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle in Newtown.

                On Saturday, a South Windsor man — who had received a suspended prison sentence and two years probation in May for stealing a dozen rifles and shotguns from Riverview Sales — tried to steal a sniper rifle from the same store, police said.

                Jordan Marsh, 26, pleaded guilty May 10 to a single count of stealing a firearm and received a suspended prison sentence and two years of probation. He initially faced 12 counts of stealing a firearm and other larceny charges.

                According to East Windsor police, on Saturday, Marsh grabbed a Bushmaster .50-caliber rifle from Riverview Sales valued at $5,000 and ran from the store. When store employees confronted Marsh, he pulled a knife, then fled on foot. Police officers eventually caught and arrested him.

                … “I selected the business to steal the rifles because it was so easy to walk out of the business with a rifle and ammunition and not be stopped or questioned,” Marsh wrote in a statement, according to an arrest warrant affidavit.

                ———————–

                Come on now. Jordan Marsh must be in big trouble with the local syndicate and was blackmailed into this. He just escaped prison time, and yet he goes back to the same store in broad daylight, grabs a 30 pound 50 cal sniper rifle and runs out, Then pulls a knife on the 2 employees who chase and confront him in the parking lot. And then is easily caught.

                Oh, and by the way. The GLP member GREADYGENIUS who did the lion’s share of the legwork making the connections between Rodia and UZAR and possibly the Lanzas?

                He just came onto his NEW LEADS thread this morning and renamed it “REMOVED”, stating the following.

                “Sorry everyone. I got a cease and desist email regarding this thread. I find the things the email said in it shocking. I would post it but it says on it that there could be fines/prison for retransmitting it. I am 100% certain this was a cover up now. Thanks for all of the contributions to this thread. Please continue the search for the truth, I have been shut down for now.”

                When pressed by Sonicdreamer, Gready wrote the following..

                “Dreamer I’m sorry I didn’t say more. The email was just from my ISP, TW. It stated there was an ongoing investigation in a matter I recently gave “information” about and I needed to delete this on behalf of my ISP for legal purpose. Then it states in a disclaimer there are legal grounds got prosecution if its “transcribed”..

                “Dreamer, the email referred to this thread. It did not say to delete the thread but it said to remove my information. I guess that would be the legal way to view it atleast. I removed the information I shared, I hope it was relevant to everyone while it lasted.”

                Next, SHR (long time mod) stepped up and insisted it was not GLP mods who shut him down, and GREADY acknowledged again that it was his ISP, yet he had to ask SHR to unban his IP address so he doesn’t have to keep posting from his phone.

                So GLP apparently banned his IP address all of a sudden?

                NOTE, Gready referenced and reprinted the conversation the owner of THIS SITE had with Rodia,

          • The only problem? No. There’s no motive. The murder weapon wasn’t found until later. The supposed killer’s car is licensed to someone else. Someone was chased out into the woods and handcuffed. Adam Lanza had Ryan Lanza’s id on him even though he hadn’t seen him in 2 years.

            But it seems they left no witnesses (which is probably why they shot everyone 3+ times). At least with Holmes there were multiple witnesses who saw that there were multiple people involved. There’s also physical evidence that suggests this.

          • ¨no witnesses¨? Define witness Kiwasabi. There are witnesses even tough granted, the ¨direct¨ kind is/are oddly missing. Following are transcripts I made of the most primary witnesses.
            There are (in no particular order): Ben + Ethan Paley (survivors)¨(…) then we hid because (everyone) thought it was an animal then when we heard gunshots that didn’t sound like our army gun shots or our policemen gunshots or our school gunshots or animal control gunshots (…) and when the policeman came to get us he told us to close our eyes (…) and he told us to close our eyes because the man was probably dead right there¨
            Then an unnamed Child on NBC special report: ¨I heard something like a person was kicking on the door, then I turned around and I saw smoke and I smelled smoke then, then bullets whized by then a teacher pulled me in to her room.¨
            Same report other kid (spoken all in one go): We heard banging and the teacher locked the doors and uhm we all went behind (editing cut) we all went over to a corner and the teacher has books to keep but complicated all the police officers had machine guns one of the first grade teachers died. (cut)¨
            Next, Alexis (survivor), Alexis just saw a lot of police officers from her class room window – asked wether she heard gunshots: Uhm well police officers like they where there kind of cause there is police officers right out the door trying to find the guy.¨
            4th grader unnamed CNN: ¨I was at the gym at the time and so the teachers uhm we heard like lots of bangs and we thought that it was the custodian knocking stuff down, we heard screaming and so we uhm, we uhm (shakes head)we went on to like we went to the wall and we sat down and then a police came in and its like is he in here (mimicking police) then he ran out and then our teachers, somebody yelled get to a safe place so we went to the closet in the gym and we sat there for a little while and then the police were knocking on the door and they are like we are evacuating people so we ran out there was police at every door they are leading us down this way, quick, quick come on and we ran down to the fire house, there is a man pinned down to the ground with hand cuffs on and we thought that was the uhm victim (cut)
            Connie Sullivan 3rd grade teacher: (…) when I heard what sounded like a popping sound an ah then some noises comming over the loud speaker – sounded like weeping noises uhm and really wasn’t sure what was going on at that point uhm and then realized that we were in some sort of a situation so I gathered my class over to my uhm coat closet area which is what we practice in our (unintelligible) and have them sit on the floor. I immediately locked the classroom door shielded the window and the closed the blinds on all my classroom windows and then uhm before I sat with the kids (teacher Sullivan goes on talking to the kids who seem not to be to worried at this point and once more starts rearanging the classroom furniture she says) … and they where hearing screaming out in the hall and they where hearing more poping sounds, gun shot sounds and the sounds over the loud speaker and they began to get upset. (teacher reasures kids that everything will be ok…)
            Kaitlin Roig teacher, survivor, supposedly managed to get 15 children in to (a) bathroom: ¨I put one of my students on top of the toilet (…) I pulled a bookshelf before I closed the door in front of it, so we were completely barricaded in (…) and so i am hearing the gunfire in the hallway and I’m thinking in my mind I’m the first classroom why isn’t he comming you know I’m thinking we’re next (…) what finally happened the gunfire stopped, the gunfire wasn’t uhm that long uhm so that stopped (…) so eventually what happened was, the police came and started knocking (…) and I said I don’t believe you, you need to put your badges underneath the door uhm so they put their badges under the door (cut) I said if your really a police officer then you would have a way to get in here, you would have a key or you would have gotten it from the (unintelligible) if everything is ok now you would have found the keys so he had the keyes and he found the right one and unlocked the door and then they brought us out to the firehouse to meet up with the rest of uhm the teachers and students waiting for parents to come and pick them up.¨

  8. should not have posted this as a reply, maybe Scott, can you change that, since it would be easier to read?
    I had to write this, because I have strong doubts about this case and writing down what was actually said for the MSM helps further my thoughts…

    • you mean the comment left as a reply to kiwasabi?

      • yeah, but never mind looks fine -

        • Fine comment, Brian…
          and one child said , “didn’t sound like school gun shots” ? wonder what he meant by that?
          and one child is watching a number of police outside while more are in the hallways….. and the shooting is over…

          children are so honest….

    • Brian, thanks for taking those notes from the witnesses. What I mean by “no witnesses” is “no witnesses who saw the shooter(s) and the incident unfold”. More specifically, no ADULT witnesses who saw the shooter(s). And no one who can ID Adam Lanza as the shooter.

      It’s interesting that smoke grenades were possibly used. One more precaution to prevent anybody from seeing anything I suppose.

      • The nurse claimed to come face to face with the shooter.

        Of course the nurse claimed alot of things. Changed her story significantly a couple times.

        MR Licata reports that his son, first grader Aidan Licata, claimed to have seen the shooter as he grabbed some friends and ran past the shooter after the shooter shot his teacher Victoria soto. He said that the shooter looked angry.

        • How could he look angry with a ski mask on? Of course, a ski mask looks sort of angry to begin with !

          • Actually it was a reporter who after speaking with the nurse claimed that the nurse came “face to face” with a gunman.

            But watch for yourself how radically the nurse “Sally Cox” changes her story in two interviews.

            • Thank you Bala Dasa – would have included her in my transcript, if I had known of her.
              I made the transcript not only to check for inconsistencies, but to see if I could establish some kind of timeline – the inconsistencies tough are so great, the witnesses so few and the official timeline offered so far is only to be found chopped up in the corporate media.
              The witnesses were either carefully selected, or heavily scripted – the kids all looked cornered and under some kind of stress ( take the kid: ¨we heard like lots of bangs and we thought that it was the custodian knocking stuff down¨ interviewed at the most unlikely place where workers were hammering and breaking up rocks), except for the girl who did not even want to talk about hearing a shooter but instead seemed overwhelmed at the police presence.
              Still have got to see someone interviewed showing believable emotion, as tough the media used actors to substitute the grieving parents and survivors. I would not put children under such scrutiny, but if anybody can show me an interview where tears are wet, or show me footage of somebody with the shocked face befitting such a tragedy , or did any one see anger, sobbing, complete loss for words…?
              Facebook pages went up the very next day to the shooting asking for donations for the deceased – I do not get that procedure can anybody help me understand that part?
              This whole thing is Mondo weird… and Bala Dasa thanks also for your other comment on the GLP Honey pot.

              • An oddity: All of the children in the first classroom were spared, the shooter did not enter that room they hid according to crisis practice procedure in this case a small bathroom. Somewhere Kaitlin Roig gives the measures of two by four feet, but that is besides the point.
                Next class room all children were shot including the teacher – no mention that they were in hiding.
                Next Victoria Sotos class room all were shot except for those hiding in the cupboard as evidently taught in their crisis excercises.
                The above nurse hid under her desk, the shooter spared her and politely closed the door.

              • In general, people who live in towns like Newtown in the liberal suburban hells of the metropolitan Northeast , where the main employers are GE, Pepsi, etc. are in 3 classes.

                One incredibly divorced from reality and emotion in general. Mind-controlled by birth, the lot of em, to be blissfully ignorant under the guise of twisted pollyanna religious teachings that promote selfish moral equivalency. Corporate cannon fodder/drones.

                They are kept in the dark by the priestly class who use those ninny drones as they will to maintain their twisted pleasure dome of good eating, illicit sex (including pedophilia) and designer drugs, and lording power over others for the rush of it.

                The last class of people in those areas are generally those who couldn’t adjust to the aloof brand of “normalcy” were seriously abused and used/orphaned, etc. and feel lots of emotion but utilize it in generally destructive ways and if they stay out of jail, they live just above poverty level due to welfare handouts.

                In other words, I think many of the parents interviewed are genuine, but spiritually/emotionally retarded and just don’t know how to act in the way that thoughtful observers consider “real”.

                As for that Emilie Parker memorial fund, it was legitimately set up by old friends of the Parkers from their days in Utah. They set it up immediately after hearing Emilie had died. Trace their facebook connections and you will find it bona-fide. Robbie Parker’s and wifes facebook and his friend’s facebooks have extensive timelines and pictures going back many years. Real hard to fake.

                His friends who initiated the Fund even apologized and said they believed they jumped the gun after they were told LATER that Emilie may or may not have died.

                And it is a memorial fund dedicated to the aid of all the victims (in Emilies name), who I gather they believed were victims, when they heard the media reports.

                As for Robbie Parkers performance. It really seems to me the guy has some Mormon like belief that Emilie is enjoying life 10 times better than she was before she died, and he is sensitive to the fact that hardly anyone else has the same “faith” that he has, which is why he summoned up some “grief” in such a forcible way.

                Think about it. If he were a dark professional put up to this, he would have cut his happy go lucky act before he stepped out on that stage in front of the cameras.

                Unless he is so profoundly dark and deep cover that he did it that way JUST TO MESS WITH PEOPLES MINDS.

                My 2 cents.

                • worth a lot more then 2 cents – it is a grim picture by your accounts , almost more so then if sandy hook was populated by actors – I guess today, if emotions become visible, feasable even – that is when a community needs to become worried. It is kind of like how the movies portrayed the indians, heartless not capable of genuine empathy – savages.

            • Wasn’t a ‘changed’ story…. in the second interview, the nurse just jumped over the part of how the secretary got under the desk……
              must have been under a ‘time’ limit.
              And she certainly did not see eye to eye with shooter unless his eyes were on his lower legs.

              • Yes in that second interview she skipped over the part about how the sec. (Barbara halstead) got in there. The sec may have been hiding in the office from the first shots fired and the shooter never saw her, as he crossed the office to the nurses room, and crossed back out. Then she came out of hiding and went into the nurses room. Very plausible.

                That is exactly what the nurse claims in this NY post article.

                http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/could_see_his_feet_was_frozen_in_ygbEGJD62sWTIMQlZ9CUFP

                But the Sec. did not hide right away, 2 faculty members claim to have called the office and spoke with school clerk Barbara Halstead (the official office “secretary” was ABSENT that day). And she is also reported to have made an announcement over the intercom.

                1. Laura Feinstein calls the office

                http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/newtown_connecticut_daughter_r.html

                “She was there,” Feinstein said of her mother, Laura Feinstein, a special education and reading teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School…

                …”She lost six of her colleagues. She lost three of her students,” Sarah, 21, said of her mother, who was home Sunday trying to recover from the terror and tumult of the shooting.

                “She’s just traumatized by it all,” Sarah said.

                Laura Feinstein got lucky, and her daughter knows it.

                The teacher (Feinstein) called Barbara Halstead, a secretary in the school’s main office, after hearing a series of loud bangs. “I called the office and said, ‘Barb, is everything O.K.?’ and she said, ‘There is a shooter in the building,’ ” Laura Feinstein told the New York Times. “I heard gunshots going on and on and on.”

                2. Library clerk recalls US school shooting nightmare

                http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gdHH5_GJ5poRX_BABumc8121jQ_w?docId=CNG.7776cf9bf5c0dcb6294e2dd1ef9bda07.851

                Squeezed into a library storage room with 18 crying and confused fourth-graders, Mary Ann Jacob thought it appropriate to tell a lie in the interests of survival.

                “We told them it was a drill, so they knew what to do,” the library clerk at Sandy Hook Elementary School told reporters Saturday, a day after 20 children and six adults were slain in one of the worst school shootings in US history.

                “But we knew it was gunshots because we had made a phone call” earlier to the school office — a call prompted by bewildering noise over the intercom system — from where the secretary said a gunman was on the rampage.

                “I called the office because I thought it (the intercom noise) was a mistake,” Jacob said. “The school secretary answered and she said there was shooting. I’m amazed she answered the phone.”

  9. Yeah, grim enough that I gotta take a break. Peanut butter cookies and ice-cream doncha know.

    • Regarding Robbie Parker’s “performance”, I think it was the smiling beforehand that was fake. I can spot a fake smile, laugh, etc from a mile away.

      Jan10, I wondered too how the shooter could look “angry” with the ski mask on. I will have to watch the video of the nurse later as I’m about to leave.

      • If by fake you mean his smile indicated he was feeling good about himself (self-absorbed/self-important/self congratulatory) a display to show others how suave he is, as opposed to a smile indicating genuine joy,..

        absolutely.

        The same with his mock up of grief/concern.

        The guy was and is all about me me me, Gotta beat my marathon time, gotta make more money, gotta have myself my own planet in KOLOB, etc. etc.

        The little girl who played dead and escaped is the one who is reported to have told her Pastor (Solomon) that the shooter looked angry and mad.

        The girl, who is said to be suffering from survivor’s guilt after she survived while her friends died, said she had to lay among the bodies of her 15 dead classmates while the gunman was in the classroom.

        “What did she see in there? Well, she saw someone who she felt was angry and somebody who she felt was mad,” Solomon told ABC News. “How at 6 and a half years old can you be that smart, that brave? I think it’s impossible outside of divine intervention. She has wisdom beyond her years.”

        Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/sandy-hook-elementary-survivor-stories-2012-12#ixzz2GUpRfPwo

        Aidan Licata’s experience in Victoria Soto’s room as told by his father Robert Licata. (shooter had no facial expressions)

        “Ms. Soto, who was Aidan’s teacher, had the presence of mind to move the kids to a far distance from the door. They were on the side of the room the furthest from the door.

        That’s when the gunmen burst in, did not say a word, no facial expressions and proceeded to shoot their teacher,” said Robert Licata, father of two sandy hook students.

        The classroom was the closest to the entrance of the school.

        Children just six and seven years old were frantic as they tried to escape.

        “They basically ran right next to the guy and out the door,” said Robert Licata.
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50223199/ns/local_news-boston_ma/t/sandy-hook-hero-victoria-soto/

        Aidan Licata’s story as reported by his mother.

        Ms. Soto slammed the door shut, but it was no obstacle.

        Aidan, a 6-year-old boy, told his mother everything later.

        “He said the gunman burst into the room,” his mother, Diane Licata, said. “He shot Ms. Soto and then began shooting the children.”

        Aidan was screaming.

        “He was running around, as were many of the children,” his mother said.

        Some dashed behind the gunman, lunging for the door.

        “They just ran,” Ms. Licata said.

        Before reaching the hallway, Aidan paused to hold the door for his friend Emma.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/nyregion/amid-the-whiz-of-bullets-seeking-comfort-in-song.html?_r=0

        Another version
        His teacher, Ms. Soto, moved her first grade students to the other side of the room. Moments later, the gunman — identified by authorities as 20-year-old Adam Lanza — was in the doorway.
        Soto positioned herself in front of the students, and the gunman shot her, Aidan told his parents.
        Aidan and the children had always been told during school drills and by his parents to run if he saw somebody with a gun. So that’s what he did.
        “They ran past the guy. He standing in the doorway, and they just ran right past him,” the boy’s father said.
        Aidan and the boys ran toward the front door, out of the building and then toward the main road where a woman stopped, picked them up and drove them to the police station.

        http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/16/us/connecticut-survivor-stories/index.html

        • Yeah, you could call it a self-absorbed smile or something along those lines. He definitely seems young enough to not have his priorities in order yet.

          Ok so there were several kids who saw the shooter(s). What about adults? Oh yeah, and the “huddled in the corner” garbage the media kept spouting off is shown to be total bs. This is another example of the media trying to aid the official story and provide an explanation for why everybody was shot 3+ times. When in reality, the quite obvious reason for it is to leave no witnesses.

          “Aidan and the children had always been told during school drills and by his parents to run if he saw somebody with a gun. So that’s what he did.”

    • Ok about the inconsistencies with the nurse… The first one, about whether she locked eyes with the shooter or not… That was a second-hand account from the media. She may have said, “He was facing right at me”, and had that changed to, “locked eyes”. They frequently misquote people. With the second point, she may just have jumped past the part where the secretary ran in.

      Anyway, what this means is she didn’t get a good look at the shooter.

      • Yes, but did you note how the nurse changes her story?

        1. She was alone in her nurses room (which is inside/adjacent to the main office) when the gunman came in, she hid under her computer desk, then he left and closed the door behind him, shot up the office, then the secretary came running in from the office, then they hid in the closet for 4 hours.

        2. She was in her nurses room with the secretary and they both hid under her desk when the shooter entered, and then he left closing the door behind him, and shot up the office.

        2 interviews, 2 stories.

        Not to mention the school secretary was reported to be absent that day.

        The woman originally claimed on the casualty list to be the school secretary is now identified as the “clerk”.

        And I just realized this is still the Webster thread, but after reading the following reports regarding the High Criminal Syndicate in Connecticut including the scenario envisioned in the 3rd article, I believe the same group went to Webster as described, it is just too tight.

        MK-ULTRA Links To The Sandy Hook Assault

        http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Frense.com%2Fgeneral95%2Fmkultra.html

        How Zionist Politicians Brought On Newtown Killings – Part 2

        http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Frense.com%2Fgeneral95%2Fhowz.html

        Mop-Up…Newton And Webster As Inter-Agency War – Pt 3

        http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Frense.com%2Fgeneral95%2Fmopup.html

      • Ok so if she intentionally changed her story, what would you conclude from that? That someone is telling her to do so? Hopefully your conclusion isn’t that “she’s an actor” because I am SO tired of this Alex Jones type of disinfo meant to discredit the truth movement.

        • witnesses are often suggested various versions of what they saw in the aftermath of events like these. Take April Gallop for instance. She was on the second floor of the section of the Pentagon hit by (whatever it was) and she actually walked down and out through the area that was hit prior to that section collapsing. The FBI got her and while asking her what she saw, they kept telling her she saw plane parts in the building while she kept saying she didn’t. They do this all the time. Someone changing a story is not exceptional and it doesn’t mean anyone is an “actor” it simply means the Feds are doing what they have for decades.

        • Right, using leading questions is a common tactic. And based on my conversations with the lead detective on the Aurora Century 16 case, that’s exactly what he’s doing. “Oh it was mighty dark in there, are you sure it wasn’t just one shooter and you were mistaken?”.

          There was the girl who said she saw a cop who had been shot in the back of a squad car (and that many others thought they saw the same thing). Well after lots of people “who were there” talked to her online after the fact, she now says she was “mistaken” and that it was “someone in a costume”. Of course she also “doesn’t know what kind of costume it was”. She’s willing to believe what someone else told her rather than WHAT SHE SAW WITH HER OWN EYES.

          • That is a little different than recollecting the school secretary being under the computer desk with you when death personified walks through your door and then out again.

            And then recollecting that the shooter came in while you were alone under your desk, left the room, “started shooting” in the office right outside your door where the secretary was stationed, and then the secretary came into your room. And then you hid in the closet for 4 hours.

            Didn’t the police say they checked every nook and cranny? So the police go in the entrance, and what is the first room they see? the office. With dead bodies and dozens of bullet casings and holes. And they don’t go into the nurses room (which is in the main office) and check there first? Yet claim they have combed the building?

            The nurse also is on record saying that she knew Nancy Lanza “the kindergarten teacher” well and she was a very nice lady.

            Did you read those links from Rense?

            If not, do so, and then go read the related investigations on Abledanger.net.

            I have been presenting the inconsistencies as they are, and then providing links so you can make informed conclusions.

            That area of the country, and specifically that area of CT is a goldmine of subhuman slime in pretty clothing, working at all levels of administration, law enforcement, education, General Electric, Pepsico, etc.

            Not for the weak of stomach.

            My conclusion? The nurse was either in on the plot or knew what (generally) was going on and her mind is so traumatized she doesn’t know what the hell to say., But my conclusion is based on a whole lot more background than the average investigator has delved into. I gave it all to you.

            .Yoichi Shimatsu’s life’s research synopsized in those 3 links from Rense.com, and Field McConnell’s research into the next level on AbleDanger.net.

          • Started reading them but only skimmed a bit. I’ll go back again when I get the chance.

            “My conclusion? The nurse was either in on the plot or knew what (generally) was going on and her mind is so traumatized she doesn’t know what the hell to say”.

            I think that describes anybody who was a witness to the Aurora shooting (or saw 9/11 on tv for that matter). I spoke with someone on staff for the Public Defenders Office in Arapahoe County (where James Holmes is being held for a CIA crime), and he was clearly scared. I said, “I think they did this for gun control”. His response? “I think they did, too”. Yes, THEY. If you don’t think people have any idea what’s really going on, you’re completely wrong. They’re in huge denial.

            Just to clarify, as far as I’m concerned there were NO actors involved in Aurora or Sandy Hook. That is more variables in the equation. And yes people died. It’s best to keep this blog as disinfo free as possible.

  10. The thing is, in places like Newtown and Danbury CT where the church of Satan is active, where pedophiles have free reign, where the Law Enforcement is proven corrupt, where Joe Lieberman, GE and Pepsi run the show, it is safe to say that 1 out of 5 of the well to do are completely living double lives. If not more.

    Perhaps you missed the link I gave to Aanirfan’s research into the twisted custodian?

    http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/sandy-hook-simulation-exercise-kevin.html

    You appear to be somewhat astute in some areas, and conservative enough not to jump to conclusions, which is proper.

    So I am sure if you saw at least one out of the five or so different interviews that Gene Rosen gave, you immediately had a gut reaction. If you saw 2 or more, you noted the glaring inconsistencies, and began to think about how incredulous the general story line is.

    I went so far as to confirm that Gene Rosen is indeed a trained actor, an amateur, by hobby, but nonetheless. He is also a video producer for a local cable TV station.

    2 + 2 = 4.

    I will assume you also missed the research done that gave 99% positive ID match to show that some interviewed in Aurora, were trained ACTORS.

    And I am not talking about the unreliable hit or miss research of Dallas gold bug, although he hits one once in a while.

    Where there is smoke there is fire. Some of us are willing to go through the smoke and into the fire and get burnt a bit, because the Emily Parker’s of the world should be spared until they get older and can handle it. Plus, if you are good you can handle the fire and use it to FRY the cowardly arsonists who light it and run away.

    • People died at the Aurora Century 16, and people died at Sandy Hook. What I’m interested in is how they perpetrated the crime. I’m tired of hearing wild speculation about actors.

      • I expect that if you are commenting on this issue you are somewhat read into it.

        If I claim a fact and don’t back it up by a link, it has already been proven by the dozens of investigators who have been on this case since day 1, spending money on background checks of the major players, and posting the results online.

        Before you use blanket statements of dismissal such as its all “wild speculation”, do some homework yourself, I gave links to GLP where facts were collated and links given to the websites of the source researchers. Also links to Abel Danger’s research, as well as the full background picture in those rense links.

        You have the right to ignore anything that might shatter whatever degree of illusion you hold to keep yourself happy in life. Ignorance is bliss. But cut it out with the smear techniques.

        Especially the one where you continue to put words into my mouth, someone who has never once even implied that NOONE died.

      • I completely agree with you on that one, kiwasabi… there is no evidence to suggest these people are actors.

        I have covered the odd press conference given by the father of one of the victims and I have covered both the Crisis Actors story as well as the fact that there were a lot of drills run in CT leading up to the Sandy Hook shooting prepping local responders to help young children after a traumatic event like a mass casualty event. One was being run in a nearby county that same day. But I pointed out that was probably done to ease suffering of surviving children and the consciences of those who planned it.

        As too the father, it’s my guess that he was coached up by his publicist because he fully expects to get a made for TV movie deal out of all of this. Whatever his motive, he was indeed “acting” and I base that on my personal experience as a trained professional actor some years ago. There is no question that is what he was doing. Now, that said, that does NOT mean, as you point out, that there were no victims, that it was all staged with Crisis Actors. As I stated, publicists train their clients in these techniques, apparently that guy’s wasn’t very good. Or maybe he came up with it on his own. Who knows.

        As I have stated MANY TIMES on this site, the ruse to discredit independent investigations of false flag events by being dismissive or insulting to victims and their families, has been around since 9/11. I know personally some disinfo guys who have attempted to get me to buy into the “no real victims” theory when I was getting a lot of attention on my controlled demolition theory. I didn’t buy it then, and when it showed up again in relation to the Aurora mass casualty event, I didn’t buy then either.

        So I appreciate your statement on this matter and fully support it. Not only is this line of inquiry a distraction like the LIBOR connection, but it is also insulting to many people, a fact that is clearly designed by those who push this theory as a means to marginalize important research that is developing.

      • One other thing to consider is the “Look ma, I’m on tv!” factor. I noticed both Governor Hickenlooper and Mayor Hogan fighting off smiles in the first Aurora Century 16 tv conference.

        The line “It’s disrespectful to all those who died to suggest….” is something I just automatically disregard. Or point it out as a blatant attempt at manipulation.

        Anyway, not sure if this has been posted here yet:

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