by Scott Creighton (H/T ronjohn)
UPDATE: (H/T Chris P) from the Denver Post Aug. 14th 2012
“For example, a newly disclosed index of hearings and motions made in the case shows 18th Judicial District Chief Judge William Sylvester has ordered prosecutors to provide a copy of a video to the defense but does not explain what the video contains.”
The motion is People’s Motion 8 as described in the Register of Action page 6 of 9… (click on image for larger view)
Defense was supposed to view the video by Aug. the 1st, but remember, the defense claimed just the other day that the prosecution has not been handing over evidence like they have been ordered to. Does that mean they haven’t been given the video as of yet?
UPDATE 2: (H/T Polaris) CBS is reporting that “sources” claim the video is of Holmes picking up a package of ammo from a Fed Ex office. Interestingly, the video also claims that the 90 packages delivered to Holmes which were reported before to have been delivered to his home, were actually ALL delivered to the University of Colorado medical campus. Remember, the university medical campus is owned by a guy who also owns a company which is in direct competition with Century 16 and they have sealed all their records in this case.
——
I’m not exactly sure what this means but a reader tipped me off to one of the documents released to the press in the Aurora Massacre case (Motion to Preserve and Produce Evidence (D-3)) which seems to imply that there were recordings “seized” by police which have yet to be released to the public. This document was one of those recently released (Aug. 13th 2012) as a result of the lawsuit brought by various media interests to unseal the evidence in the case.
Would they be cell phone videos inside the theater during the shooting or perhaps the security camera footage or even some hack who was recording the film to release it on the black market. Don’t know what this means but the defense was apparently very interesting in forcing the prosecution to preserve such recordings. (click on image for larger view)
Now, this could be a standard motion filed in courts these days since security camera videos are pretty much everywhere. But, I think it’s interesting that it’s the first article of the motion. Also of note is the second article of the motion requesting that the judge keep law enforcement from destroying their notes in this case, which apparently is standard operating procedure these days.
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Filed under: Aurora Massacre, Neoliberalizing America, Scott Creighton
Whoa… defense is beginning to flex their muscles ? Way to go !!
Seems the ruling set up the defense ability to actually see the video but remember, the defense stated the other day that the People (prosecution) has not been forthcoming in handing over required evidence. So I don’t know if that means they haven’t seen the video as of yet or not.
I hope so – but I wonder how successful they will be. I looked at D-6 motion to allow defense expert to be present at evidence testing and the prosecution’s response…I just hope judge will rule justly…
my reply was to Jan10 – being posted under willyloman looks confusing – sorry
Smiley, I thought the police did evidence testing.. and results were passed on to both defense and prosecution?
how can the ‘testing’ be completely honest and acceptable by court unless done by non-envolved parties?
Jan, I share your opinion – that’s why I was surprised with prosecution’s response to D-6 – why would they oppose to a defense expert observing the testing?!?…but we already know how shady this entire case is…
“or seized” has probably been put in there to cover all forms of obtaining video evidence. I don’t think they are saying that the police has seized any footage (but of course they probably have) but I just think it is a term that is used all the time.
Why would a UPS ‘driver’ know the exact number of deliveries that had been made to a single person at a large university? Of course, not important whether these sources are in any way reliable (or actually exist), just that the message keeps getting put out – “He’s already guilty”
(Anyone notice how the insert photo in the news clip above is using a bright orange saturation for his t-shirt – in the original photo its a brown/orange, quite clearly not the bright jail-jumpsuit orange they’re using)
Also, the idea of someone ordering ammunition in dozens of small shipments seems (relatively) plausible butis it really possible though that in the post 9/11 era somone can order over 5000 rounds of ammo to be picked up from a freight company without any red flags being raised? (any legitimate use for that much ammo would surely see it delivered to a home or business address – not being American all I can say is that in any other country I’ve lived in that would be unthinkable though perhaps US gun culture makes allowances for such things – the fact that you can get that much ammo for only about $1000 is one exisiting difference).
They are saying he picked up 150 lbs of bullets from FedEx in one shipment. I wonder how many of the 6000 bullets that was. He didn’t order his guns online, and he got one shipment with the tactical vest and knife, and another shipment was the vest he bought on ebay. What were in those other 87 packages? Can they not trace them like the bulkammo and the tactical equipment order?
Good point chris, what in the world could have been in those total of 90 boxes?
I noticed the retouched prison-orange shirt, too. It’s infuriating.
Any package delivered by UPS or Fedex to a commercial address (business, school, etc.) has to be signed for… but it can be signed for by anyone. So, these packages supposingly sent to Holmes at school could’ve been grabbed by anyone.
Plus, they said he was in the process of withdrawing and thus no longer had access to labs, school, etc.. after mid-may. If so, no way he ordered and got those packages.
They cant have it both ways
Good point D.D. Covers
plus they could have been ordered by anyone using his name. He may have never seen any of this at all. This changes a lot.
Yes, they can be ordered, sent, and received with his name, but signed by others. For instance I can order something from Amazon for you, send it to your address, without putting ‘my’ real name on it, and then your secretary receives it. This can’t be used as proof of anything. Really they need to follow credit card payments and bank statements to know who and where and when – otherwise anyone could literally implicate anyone else in…say a murder for example.
So true!
absolutely
So if all the boxes were delivered to the Uni, what were the boxes the police found in the dumpster near his apartment then??
I don’t mean hijack this comments thread, not sure if there’s a proper protocol on bringing up other topics, but here goes anyway.
SO I’ve been listen to lots of eyewitness reports on YouTube and while lots of them raise questions, I figured this one was worth asking, in the video Aurora Eyewitness Jaime Marshall – And Some Guy Comes Running In Says Not To Go In Lobby [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChBA8I3Otoo&w=560&h=315%5D
The girl claims that when she exited the theatre there was a cop with a gas mask & rifle, which I thought seemed odd since on the scanner audio, the first mention of gas is 4 minutes in and 5:30 a cop is demanding the get some “goddamn gas mask now!” My question is, how long did these people wait in Theatre 8 before exiting–long enough for 1 prepared cop to be in the lobby with a gas mask, I guess.
As a side note, I remember hearing an account early on from a black dude who said he held the door and wouldn’t let people out of theatre 8 because the shooter was out there. The guy even says the shooter pulled on the door to get into theatre 8 but then just stopped.
and didn’t that same girl say she saw bullet holes in the lobby? Same witness?
Yep… how long were they ‘trapped’ in theater 8? And if the gas was only in theater 9, why a cop in the lobby with a mask? And the injured girl and friend that entered theater 8 thru the fire exit… so they walked right past JH in the parking lot? Or did they escape while the ‘shooter’ in theater 9 was going up the stairs? Then there is that shooter outside following them to theater 8 and didn’t shoot? (maybe heard the sirens and bolted?) Imagine if JH was in that dark tinted window white car.. escaping victims would not notice. Also, what the heck about blood they speak of on the stairs in theater 8?
My understanding from some of the videos of ‘witnesses’ was that the ‘smoke from Theatre 9 was flowing around the corridors, and even coming through the holes in the walls of Theatre 8. I believe, just a thought, that the person people saw with a mask on in the lobby, so early on , was in fact one of the shooters, and the other shooter who was outside of theatres 8 and 9 in the parking lot where the white car was, he dropped his mask after banging on the back door of 8 and took off his gear, then left it at Holmes in the car, and dropped his weapon at Theatre 9 exit door, and left through there,mortally wounded , taken away to a hospital, like ‘a member of the audience’…in th panic no one noticed as the others inside were yelling to NOT GO OUT THROUGH THE EXITS because people were being shot – the people being shot were in fact the real shooters being taken out…imho…its a theory I posted on my blog. Thanks to the work of willyloman I got a clearer picture of what really happened, I’ve listened to all the offical tapes and seen most of the witness videos available. The details that have been highlighted here were a real help. To me, this whole things was a drill that went ‘Live’ and the unsuspecting public were caught in a death trap.
Yeah, I tend to lean this way too.
That makes me wonder if the other shooters had regulation everything on and only James was wearing the non-regulation gas mask. That way accomplice(s) could just say he was with the police at any point?
Also reminds me in a Q&A with Oates he is asked what the arresting officers are wearing and it sounds like they were in something similar to swat gear when they arrive on the scene, which is their normal gear I think.
Maybe some of the first cops on scene had gas masks but most didn’t hence the desperate plead later on, on the police monitors about a need for gas masks.
i wonder when James Holmes last day at school was. I saw a video that said he announced he was going to quit on june 10
So I think they’re agreeing that he did quit on June 10, and most of the packages were sent in the last 2 months, according to Oates.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/10/university-of-colorado-james-holmes_n_1764483.html
What I think is odd is that it’s only and always been just the school that said he was in the process of withdrawing (with the gag order, no documents confirming this have ever been seen)…. there have never been any first-hand confirmation of this, like any family, friends, or classmates saying he personally told them he was withdrawing. Only moving plans seem to be him asking about moving to another apartment in the area. The school withdrawing/oral exam problem statements sure do fit nicely into their timeline. Is there video, sales receipt of him buying this rifle?
If I remember correctly, it may have been June 10 when someone from the school told the rest of the kids in his program that James was withdrawing… at a end of the year party at some bar. James didn’t attend.
It is interesting that you have brought this up, when you did, because I have for the last couple days, been wondering if anybody as you would think they would these days, had not taken any cell vids, and such like you suggest. Now we have some hint that there may have been, and it was sanitized from public view. Funny how that always happens, unless it of course benefits the ptb.
Cui Bono ?
the perps OWN the Media…
ADL/ATF & ADL/FBI are paid to do Jobs…
some get extra pay for black bag jobs…
“boots” on the ground…
http://www.rwainwright.com/images/Waco_SLIDESHOW_2_Int.mov
Sorry too if this has been discussed already…but I am really stuck on the blood trail leading into the theater from the parking lot in back of the theater…. I am also stuck on the lack of blood trails, blood pools or blood stains in the front of the theater,,,,the aerial footage of the front of the theater shows two police standing guard….but the entrance/cement is completely clean…..how could 50-60 people exit through the front with gunshot wounds and not leave a blood trail or stains???
The trail of blood in the back of the theater really puzzles me as a person mortally wounded would only want to go back into the theater if they felt they would be safe or thats where they could seek help..or..maybe return to a loved one… but certainly NOT try to re enter if there was a shooter inside …
..
The blood at the back is from the REAL SHOOTER…he went back into Theatre Exit No.9 to escape being executed, but he was already mortally wounded, the blood trail is HIS, he dropped his gun at the door and was inside…then taken away with the other wounded!
So that would be one of the 2 deaths that suddenly weren’t mentioned anymore? When the death toll went from 14 to 12?
Yes indeed sunshinez! – I’ve mentioned it in my unofficial ‘theory of a live drill’ post that I’ve called ‘Sounds like a plan, Batman’, in a tongue in cheek way although this is a VERY SERIOUS case!!
Marie,,,thats a great theory and makes sense…..it explains why the mask was left where it was……. Ok so what is your take on the lack of blood trails, pools, blood stains at the front of the theater as I mentioned…..there are only two police standing guard but the entrance does not look at all like a crime scene…..if I cut my hand it bleeds and leaves a trail, if a ONE person bled all over the back of the theater and left a trail then 50-60 people would leave multiple trails… I dont understand the cell phone video we are shown ad nauseum where the police are escorting a man in a striped shirt with blood on it out of the theater…Police actions as well as bystanders are not consistent with someone shooting inside the theater,,,,,,the polcie show no urgency in clearing people out….the police allow people to continue to mingle at the front theater,,,,,,it looks like people may even be working still inside the theater…??? Obviously if there was a shooter inside the police would be clearing everybody out with guns drawn and telling people to take cover…..yet the officer walks calmly out of the theater …
Keep trying to post this video, but without success. Go to Youtube and search for the video called, “Colorado Theater Shooter, Not A lone Gunmen?”
**A neighbor who claims she saw Holmes running through the street with another man around 7 p.m. the night of the shooting.**
A handler, maybe? Take it for what it’s worth.
Some updates on (possibly) video material. In the motion submitted today (can be seen on the court web site) the prosecution is asking for continuation of tomorrow’s privilege hearing. They mention that, beside 2500 pages of discovery, 52 DVDs and CDs have been received. It is reasonable to expect some videos on the DVDs, no?
The privilege hearing has been moved to 8/23.
No idea where to post this…if you google raw-video-aurora-police-press-conference-from-theater-shooting and watch the questions at the end, one journalists says witnesses on the scene say there was an immediate police presence when shootings began. All Q&A with Oates are interesting including this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2toZkIXh9VY&feature=related
There were cops already at the scene when the shooting started. There is a witness on Youtube who says the cops were checking cars BEFORE the movies started, because it was a big event, they wanted to make sure there would be no trouble in the parking lots (LoL)
I notice no answer to the question of whether there were cameras at the scene!!!The chief’s mouth is open but he’s thinking about whether to reply or not. He decides to stop the questions! Interesting!
Guess they didn’t check the white car with all the guns and ammo and gear inside…
VERY GOOD POINT sunshinez…. complicity no doubt?
One of the early reports shows illustrations of the booby traps he supposedly left in his apartment.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-video-colorado-shooting-suspect-abc-news/story?id=16830653#.UCzGtqPNtyE
Nothing that a typical student would have the knowhow to set up. Of course, you can find guides on the net (if you’re happy to gamble with the number of fingers you have), yet the police say he left “almost no digital footprint of any kind.” Properly erasing your online presence (and fully wiping your computer) is also something the average person would not know how to do (its not nearly as easy as most think). Plus, why would he even care?
Gray, that is so true…!!! that is a real eye-opener ..
why would he have cared to wipe any trace of ‘him’ from his own computer ….if he planned on escaping, then why take drugs that prevented him from barely being able to move, much less escape?
If he was trying so hard to leave no trace of his involvement, why did he have so many boxes of bullets delivered to him at his school or apt? Seems a really dumb thing to do…. or a planned set up by ‘some one else’
Also in the above. It states the manager of the Lead Valley shooting range replied to an email about membership from holmes but gave up he got a “freakish” “bizzare” “incoherent” and “guttural”, message on the answering machine.
ABC claims it was “Batman-inspired.” Yet the interview with the gun club manager doesn’t say that at all.
http://www.wgrz.com/video/1749012964001/1/Gun-Range-Owner-James-Holmes-voicemail-greeting-incoherent-freakish
1) There was a much closer gun club with an indoor range (lead valley is outdoor) in Aurora. Surely that would have suited his plans far better?
2) ABC show the supposed membership form complete with Holmes signature. Either this is a fake made by ABC (most likely) or it is completely different form Holmes writing on the booking docket.
3) He was still going for drinks with friends and neighbors up until the week of the shooting, did he never mention that he joined a gun club? If he was tring to keep it a secret why apply with his real name and make himself seem like a nut on his voicemail? (does the number the manager called match Holmes apartment/cell?)
4) Did nobody else who knew him notice the extremely bizzare voicemail? Everyone seems to think he was normal up until the event. Wouldn’t this bizzare message from the shy young man have raised eyebrows and been remembered?
5) Where did he do his training then? (remember police said his hit rate of over 50% meant he must have done considerable target practice) Also why was that place he trained not put off by his bizarreness?
Wanting to check Glenn Rotkovich’s background I did a quick search for “”glenn rotkovitch” and “colorado”. For some reason all my results are coming back in French on both google and yahoo. Odd. Rotkovich aslo said he “gave [the] staff his name … and told everyone here to get me if he shows up at the range. I wanted to know who he was before we considered doing anything with him, let alone make him a member. He was flagged.” He realy made THAT much of an impression?
One other thing I hadn’t read before: “It’s claimed he spent hours staring at a police station wall after his arrest and when police put evidence bags on his hands to preserve gunpowder residue, witnesses say he pretended the bags were glove puppets.” Apart from the (glove pupets + homicidal mania) just being odd, with so many people able to comment on weird things he was doing, how come nobody seems to get asked about the obvious fact that he’s off his head on drugs and how this might have impacted his ability to perform expert shooting just a couple of hours earlier.
All very good points!
Isn’t it funny how almost everyone except Jackie Mitchell from the bar that allegedly remembers seeing him some time before the shooting is saying there was something crazy about him? The people at the apartment building where he supposedly asked for vacancies say his eyes were “cold” and “evil”….Really? I’m sure if the story hadn’t been a shooting but some heroic act where James saved a baby or something everybody would’ve remembered him to have been open and friendly and warm, etc. etc. Why would he ask for an apartment just down the street, knowing that he’s going drop out of school and rig his own apartment to blow up and then probably have to escape Colorado after the shooting?
Also, would a lone nut that’s presumably antisocial and done with the world and that has been planning to shoot up a theater for months just go out to the bar the same week of the shooting and chat up people like nothing’s happening?
And why would he take a bunch of Vicodin before the shooting?
Literally nothing makes sense.
They don’t hand you a form at booking. They ask questions and fill in the form themselves. actually, they usually do it on the computer at an intake desk….
wait a minute… why would they use the old fashioned form in the first place? Why not just have him stand in front of the desk so the intake person can input the info into the computer directly?
Did they fill out the form somewhere away from that intake desk like at an infirmary bed?
I agree you can’t have it both ways. How is James Holmes able to do so much mentally and physically taxing killing and then is a vegetable when cops arrive? Also was wondering if his handlers drugged him to the point of permanent damage, or if they are just forcibly drugging him daily. He is clearly drugged to extreme levels and has been so since at least his apprehension.
Are you thinking this whole thing was staged – as in no one actually really died? Because that’s what I’ve been thinking.
What? You saying everyone in Aurora is in on this? The people who attended the funerals of their children.. they are pretending? No way…
someone murdered 12 people…
speaking of blood trails… we have not seen the interior of the theater…. where the bodies of the dead were.. their wounds would have left blood trails if they had been able to run..
the other wounded probably had bleeding wounds, but maybe not enough to trail down to ground… they probably were put into emergency vehicles as soon as they exited to front or back. of theater…
No. Those people died that they and they left behind many friends and families who are grieving now. We cannot disrespect them by saying they didn’t die.
What we can do, however, is find out who the real killer(s) was, which obviously wasn’t the guy who is in jail right now. THAT’S the real tragedy.
Of course they died. Of course people were wounded. That’s what destabilization campaigns do. The question is who did it and why
I’ve heard this ‘theory’ also. Its ridiculous and can easily be checked out if anyone has the guts to go over there to Aurora and check it out. Its easy for people to speculate on this issue of real or actors – I find it just plain stupid!!
The reason I thought that this whole thing was staged – and no one was actually dead is from watching the youtube videos. No one is believable. I watched a video where a man lost his daughter and it just seemed like he was trying to seem sad! It’s obviously a stretch to believe they can plan something so orchestrated where no one actually died and they are all actors… but even videos of the people in the hospital look fake. Also, I seen the twitter/blog of someone who had lost his sister. I’m not sure why he was writing blogs on the day that his sister died. Seems unnatural (although I understand everyone grieves differently).
People are definitely dead.
It was reported he used birdshot with the shotgun he used as his first weapon. This is also slightly odd. Birdshot is smaller than buckshot pellets and used to kill game without damaging the meat too much. Most people would assume it is much less likely to be lethal (and thus the shooter wasn’t trying to kill people), however, at very close range it is likely to cause far more gruesome wounds than buckshot or solid slugs (and if the latter don’t kill outright they are more easily treatable than dozens of smaller holes). Yet at distance birdshot lose most of their penetration and create generally shallow wounds (though they can still be lethal).
Its unclear whats happened and what the victims where hit by but some survivors showing pellet wounds appear to have been hit by a much wider spray, i.e. at a distance. If the shooter started with this, firing at distant targets with birdhsot to cause mass panic and confusion, creating many victims of minor wounds, it would again seem to suggest a very clinical, well-planned tactical attack (further at odds with Holmes doped up fugue state). The other option, that he targeted people close to him with the intention of killing them, yeah birdshot would work (travelling in a tight mass at close range its just as lethal) but buckshot would work better for putting people down for the count, thus leaving birdshot a strange thing for somone who had bought thousands of rounds of ammo to opt for.
Bird shot also creates much more causalities. You can see from some of the vids, that people seemed to only have red marks, and no penetration at all. In other words, the more causalities the “better” it sounds for pysops reasons. Interesting the ptb use plastic pellets that have much the same effect.
I remember reading an article in which it was claimed one victim suffered “22 buckshot wounds” and my reaction to someone I was talking to at the time was that would have killed her. I guessed the shooter had to have been using birdshot and I came to the same conclusion you did, that it was done to reduce the amount of fatalities and increase the number of casualties. Bird shot spreads faster than buckshot does as well I think but I’m not sure about that.
exactly… all that ammo and he comes out with birdshot?!
I wonder if Holmes was actually in the back seat of the white car when they found him. If you look at the photos, the windows on that car are deeply tinted, I can’t see any light at all through those back side ones. If they didn’t take that precaution, there was a risk of an officer on site, seeing him in the car before, or during, the shooting. They couldn’t take that chance. I’m also not really buying that anyone suited up back there, too risky. This all explains why the police, who by many accounts were already on site that night, (at least one cop and 3-4 rent a cops) didn’t notice someone back there in a car, or suiting up. And why it took so long to find Holmes and take him into custody.
The pile of swat gear there is also a mystery. Oates has already said that they found him in swat gear. So they stripped him down at the scene then. Even his pants tho? How normal is that? If he was drugged and couldn’t stand, wouldn’t it look weird that they were tearing his clothes off? I’m surprised not one witness mentioned seeing the arrest at all, or a naked man with an orange afro.
That tells me that they controlled the flow of people out to the back. The officer on the radio was calling for ambulances back there, because it was the easier, faster route. Someone staged the ambulances on the opposite side of the theater. This was either to preserve the crime scene, (in which there is not excuse for any alteration or unreasonable amount of anomalies) or to make sure no witnesses are present, except for police (who are bound by a gag order, even possible whistleblowers inside the FBI or APD that are ready to call foul like a ref)
If this is the case, the shooter fled off into the darkness in full swat gear, which is particularly embarrassing for the police, having let such an obvious suspect escape.
If a suspect has blood evidence on his clothing, what is the standard operating procedure for preserving and testing that evidence? It seems like they would want to keep the clothing on them, for a stronger case. Does anyone know a cop or lawyer, or is one, or has any knowledge on this?
If Holmes was as stated, found standing by his car in swat gear, police would immediately search him for concealed weapons and (or) a concealed explosive device strapped to his body especially after he stated that his apartment was booby trapped, I would think that they would also search him for a detonator & confiscate his cell phone. To do this thoroughly, they would have to remove the swat gear he was wearing. Besides, I don’t immagine they would under any circumstance transport him anywhere clothed in full swat gear. Also, I remember reading that he was wearing red clothes under the swat gear. This however, it still does not explain the second gas mask found at the far end of the theater.
As for the broken car window, if the car was locked; it’s the quickest way for the police to get into it. Especially after eyeing weapons in it.
I think people were kept out of that back area near the car right up to the moments police “showed up” on the scene and apprehended their suspect. Even if the theater had surveillance cameras shut off (at the biggest movie premier perhaps ever) for some reason, shouldn’t the cop cars have active cameras.
It’s open and shut case because why?
We have the perp on camera surrendering? …..do we?
Why would prosecution have to work so hard on such an open and shut case.
Why would it be so risky to show “we the people” evidence on a case with sooooo much solid overwhelming evidence that he did it?
The evidence was so solid Oates was running around telling all media outlets that it was an open and shut case and Holmes will pay for what he did, in one interview I think maybe the day after the shooting Oates guarantees a conviction etc…. WTF
I apologize for typos etc.
They have shown us NOTHING. The ABC video above makes a whole bunch of claims backed up with ZERO proof. He bought this, this, and this…but we won’t show you any receipts, no surveillance, nothing. Just believe us because we said so. Please. As for their little view inside of his apartment of all of the explosives? Is that based on the oh-so-eloquent description done by Chris Hansen? Or Chief Oates? Again, we’re supposed to just believe that’s what it looked like because they were able to get pictures of a shelf, a poster, a jar of blue kool-aid, and some prosecution members, but absolutely NOTHING in the way of real explosives, wires, etc. Sadly, most of the public is perfectly content with this.
Also, even if they did strip James of the gear, the other gear, gas mask, and duffel bag were found at the opposite end of the theatre. So that would make no sense.
We also don’t know where exactly he was. The APD audio where the one officer asks, “Is that the dude IN the car ?” makes it pretty obvious where he was.
And I agree, Oates did make it seem like it was cut and dry. He opened his big mouth “confirming” only one suspect which went totally against everything the APD. The rate at which the information came out about the guns, ammunition, packages sent to his home/school was way too fast imo. Like it had already been all planned out.
“The rate at which the information came out about the guns, ammunition, packages sent to his home/school was way too fast imo. Like it had already been all planned out.”
Exactly, go back and look at the vids from 911 about the calibrating arabs. Look real close as a many of them you can find, and you will see it is just a bunch of kids having a great time, wait for it, two suspect looking men (one very Jewish and one very US military), handing out candy to them. I don’t know any child that will not get excited, especially from a poor background that wont get excited of candy. There was also an old lady that was there, and anybody else that was “celebrating was just walking through hand had no clue what the excitement was about, and the people in the background were not even interested, just walking and going about their daily lives.
Yet the media had this footage pre-canned and were telling us what they wanted us to think about it, and that is what most people still think that originally seen it. Video and pictures is a very powerful media for good or ill.
If Oates congratulated his officer for noticing something not quite right with Holmes police outfit then it must have been reasonable to think a cop with full swat like gear (which may be a typical cop uniform in those parts, not sure) would already be on scene. Would like someone to add this if possible.
This was a set up… and Holmes is the targeted patsy…
I hope the local police are getting angry about being used in such a manner….. angry police can put down some real answers and force out the truth….
at least they do that in the movies…
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31361045/detail.html
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/110065/The_James_Holmes_Conspiracy_2012_Full_Documentary/
I’ll make a few points here that you all may (or may not depending on your point of view) be interested in.
1) I admit my own fascination with this case for several reasons a) I know (not well) someone who was actually shot in the theater and lost a kidney and part of a leg.b) the movie theater is about two miles from my office where I’m sitting right now and the university is about three miles away. c) I guess I’m fascinated by true crime
2) My wife works with someone whose husband is one of the five other students in the program JH was in at the university. According to the woman my wife works with her husband said absolutely no one was surprised JH turned out to be a mass murdered. In fact, he said, if he had to pick a single person he’d come into contact with in his entire life who might end up in this situation it would be James Holmes.
3) In terms of the delivery of packages to the University – JH lived in an apartment building in Aurora. Aurora is by far the dirtyest, pooest part of Denver. No one would have anything they considered important delivered to their doorstep and left on the street in Aurora. By havng it delivered to the University he could be sure someone would sign for the package and it would be safe until he came to pick it up. Furthermore, the campus mail building is literally the closest building on campus to the aparptment JH lived in. He would have passed that building every time he entered or exited the campus on the way to his apartment.
4) I agree there are several things about this case that don’t make much sense – mainly the gas mask at the end of the building, the photographs showing that that smae gas masked appears to have been “substititued” with a slightly different version. Thinking through the narrative pieced together, however, the gas mask at the end of the parking lot could perhaps be explained by the notion that he attempted to get into the adjacent theater 8 via the back of the theater.If he walked along back there looking for additional opportuntities to do damage and realized he could get into any of the theaters through exit doors (they don’t even have handles on them meaning they couldn’t possibly be opened from the outside without a key) by the time he got to the last door he would have been very close to where the gas mask was found. In many of these mass shootings that are somewhat prolonged there seems to come a time when the shooter suddenly loses interests. The act is done, the police are closing in and it’s time to end it, one way or another.Most pull the trigger.
5) Obviously, when the police found him in riot gear they would have removed all of that immediately with a gun to the back of his head. No surprise that it’s in the parking lot.
6) My therory on this whole thing is he actually wanted to be caught (Certainly he wasn’t going back to the apartment) and fashioned himself after the villan in a comic book who is locked away in a hospital for the criminally insane. To me that seems like his goal. Personally, I’m hoping for the alternative, which will be the death penalty.
Thanks for your comment. First of all I hope your friend/acquaintance is doing alright, those are horrible injuries. I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind.
1. You say people weren’t at all surprised that the mass murderer turned out to be James. Any more details as to why? What type of behavior was he exhibiting to make one think that he would be capable of such an act? At what point did he start, or had he always been that way? How did he get into the program in the first place? His behavior must’ve been seriously off if nobody was surprised at all. How does this go together with all other accounts of people saying they saw nothing wrong with the guy, some of them going as far as saying they believe he could’ve been set up?
2. 90 packages were sent to the school over months. That didn’t raise any flags when like you said everybody thought he was seriously weird? Professors/school officials must’ve noticed the same thing if his classmates did. Packages are not “left out on the street”. They are taken back to the mailroom with a notice for the recipient to pick them up.
3. Why was he looking for an apartment down the street from his own not long before the shooting if he wanted to be caught? If he was obsessed with the Joker to the point of wanting to impersonate him in real life, why the orange hair and not signature green? Why walk into a room full of strangers and start shooting into the seats, which is not something the Joker would do at all? I doubt anyone that obsessed would create a plan that has little in common with the villian’s character and mindset.
4. How many gas masks did he bring and what for? Have you looked at the timeline of events? How did he have time to run back and forth outside of the theaters when cops were already stationed there?
5. Personal question: Why would you want the death penalty?
I’d love to hear more about James’ classmate. I realize you probably won’t be able to get much more information out of that lady but it certainly intrigues me to hear this after all the people who knew James said that he wasn’t weird in any way at all.
By the way, the “Joker” moniker thing has been debunked, so I doubt he was obsessed with this character. It was a lie from the beginning. Holmes NEVER said he was the Joker–Oates’ NYC police friend was the one who first broke that story. You know, just to give the story legs, further demonize the accused, and terrify the public.
The list of completely debunked stuff grows each day (the links to the supporting docs and vids are scattered throughout the comments on this website):
*Holmes called himself The Joker (False!)
*Homes previously worked at McDonald’s (False!)
*Holmes spit at prison workers (False!)
*Holmes frequented a website for johns and posted prostitute reviews online (False!)
*Holmes grabbed and yelled at people during the shooting (False!)
Add, *Holmes Mother says, “you have the right person” (In context she was only confirming Holmes was her son and her lawyer publicly corrected ABCs ridiculous report.)
and.. *Holmes had a notebook full of stick figure people killing etc. (The defense team layout how ridiculous this is seeing as no source is ever given by BIG BOY Media).
- So I think the idea is to put out big stories that fit the main stream narrative with sketchy sources that push the story.
- If it is true or not, it matters very little.
– People are too busy to hear the quite retractions.
If you are most people you heard about a big shooting that night, one guy did it, he was found near his car outback where he did not resist arrest, said he was the joker, his own mother says you got the right guy, he spits and yells batman lines in jail, he was an epic loner failing at school, work and in love, he had a notebook mailed to his school that depicted his desire to do violent random acts, and recently I am seeing them really play up his psychiatrist and how she might have known all along….Sherlock Holmes would be sickened by this case and the way Oates has handled it.
Just saw this and had to add it fox news article headline “Holmes doesn’t react to talk of struggling victims”
HOW INSENSITIVE OF MR. HOLMES, HUH??
* surprise, he is not reacting to anything because……(drum roll) he can’t use his conscious mind to form words!
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/16/holmes-doesnt-react-to-talk-struggling-victims/#ixzz23kxWcOrO
Fact: the ‘joker’ item was not Holmes’ words…. they were not true.
You are the first person who has said that Holmes was a weird guy. Can you prove that?
You are wrong about the 2nd gas mask…… and why have two?
The police report that they took Holmes and his tactical gear to the jail. So who used the other gear found at scene?
’m also caught off guard by the fact that you are wishing the death penalty on him. Are there not enough anomalies in the case for you to think that a fair and transparent trial is needed? I would think a true crime fan would be seeking answers and the truth, not death for an un-convicted individual.
Dead men tell no embarrassing tales.
I really do not understand why they didn’t shoot Holmes in the back of the theater. Is this part of the psyop to see how much injustice we will not care about.
Seems like people either wanna see him fry because they are sure he did it or people are questioning the case. But most people don’t care at all. Not surprising because most mass shooting I never researched much before this one.
I was definitely drawn in to this because of my interest in movies and I like batman etc and couldn’t believe someone would to taint one of my favorite things about America with such a sickening act.
I certainly didn’t follow the AZ shooting as close or the Colorado shooting etc, etc, but this one has pulled me in.
That footage in the pre trial really drew me in, considering his demeanor and lack of action or recognition of anything around him. Then watching Oates answer media questions with his creepy FBI buddy with him for both press conferences. I posted both somewhere earlier in the thread. The first one is really cool because its Oates taking questions very soon after all events occurred. I believe you can google raw-video-aurora-police-press-conference-from-theater-shooting and it is the first link. I hope someone video captures this before it is gone, most youtube clips I see of Oates are missing the Q &A bits after the briefing.
I think it ultimately has more impact if the public gets to see the evil shooter, how deranged and detached he is from reality. I also believe that this will probably result in the death penalty (which I certainly hope won’t happen), because it would be the perfect ending. Police apprehended him within minutes and he gets fried for all the people calling for his head. To further desensitization. And it will be case closed, no need to further research and ask questions.
Meanwhile they have more confirmation of how gullible and accepting the public has become, or like you said how a lot just don’t give a damn in the face of glaring inconsistencies. It’s almost like they’re testing how stupid we really are. The guy carries out an evil master plan, and days later he looks like he can’t remember his own name. Sounds about right.
It’s just beyond f’ed up.
@Sunshinez I’ve seen evidence suggesting the DA is corrupt in relation to a case involving CIA agent Raymond Davis, what cases has the judge ruled suspiciously in?
Assuming James Holmes did this and acted alone I agree he should get the death penalty. For me that is a huge assumption…
- Because of visceral emotions our first reaction is to burn the accused and make someone pay for the crime, especially if it is the guy the police chief tells us was caught red handed / open and shut case.
-Proving someone guilty or innocent is an intellectual game.
I’m against the death penalty in any case, but that’s just me. I don’t think it makes much sense to condemn someone for killing and then punish them by essentially committing the same act.
Not to mention that a lot of these cases aren’t black and white enough to make such a decision. A decision that cannot be taken back.
I wanted to reply to your comment from above but there is no reply button, maybe it’s maxed out or something.
Great point, they give us a blank(drugged) face and we get to project what we think he is. If you think he did it, which you should if you just listen/watch big boy media, then you see an evil sick person etc. Same applies if you are a victim or close to a victim(basic emotion) and they are the most quoted people from the court appearances, about how he looks like pure evil or the devil etc.
-Oh and it is ridiculous how the sketch artist gave him that crazy scowl on the 2nd court appearance and tried it still a little bit on the 3rd appearance, perhaps because he believes hes guilty. Not sure but I didn’t see anything close to a scowl that first appearance
I just see some person heavily drugged, lobotomized or something similar. Doesn’t seem evil, heroic, smart, funny, sinister, etc, etc…Hard to get a read on him because he is so detached.
Why did they let cameras in that first day for the pre trial thing, was that something they could not block even if they wanted to? Maybe ties back into the reason they left him alive in the first place….
My guess is to give everyone that look at how crazy he seems. Everything the media has done up until this point has served to demonize him and spin every possible piece of information in a way that makes him guilty.
-At first they were downplaying his intelligence, saying he was weird, antisocial, was out with prostitutes, spitting in jail, thinking he was the joker acting in a movie, using the bags over his hands as puppets, the famous stick figure notebook, etc. -> People make up their minds, stop questioning anything if they ever did. Small number of people that question the story is left.
-As soon as it becomes obvious that the defense is going for an insanity plea the narrative shifts back to reports of how he was a brilliant student, everybody loved him in the classroom, and magically his application to UI where people were fighting over him to attend appears online. No, he can’t possibly be insane. He was in his right mind, he shot those people, he’s guilty, and he should be thrown in jail for life or be fried. -> People are even more convinced he should pay for the crime since he’s evil. Other people have already stopped following. Even smaller number of people seeking the truth left.
The holes in the case are never brought up, nobody asks questions on behalf of the public. Nobody even MENTIONS the security camera footage or gas masks. Witness testimonies of multiple shooters are quickly shunned from the TV screen, online articles are scrubbed.
It’s bs.
Not to offend you (SOK), but I hope everyone takes your comment with a healthy dose of skepticism.
A healthy dose of skepticism? In this thread you have people suggesting that perhaps people didn’t actually die in this event. People suggesting that he was mind controlled and programmed to kill. People suggested that he has been drugged up by “handlers.” People suggesting that he actually wasn’t even involved merely scooped up off the streets and planted at the scene of the crime by unknown forces who fled the scene.
So what your saying is that it more reasonable to assume that someone planted him at the scene, committed this act and then vanished into thin air while he takes the blame and his parents (who are well of) don’t even bother to hire a lawyer.
You’re right. I’m way off base here.Maybe we should take a look at some extraterrestial scenerios.
Don’t act like most of the findings on here are not based on evidence photos, witness reports, and police recordings. You can focus on the 1 or 2 comments that have been suggesting the whole thing was staged if you want to but that’s not a reflection of this site.
All it really takes is a bit common sense. Police and witnesses are talking about multiple shooters Multiple gas masks and gear are found at the scene. Holmes wasn’t identified by anyone, not going into the theater, not buying a ticket, not shooting. Only description we have of the perps is a guy with a goatee opening the emergency exit for someone else, someone who wore a plaid shirt, someone who ran off with a backpack. All of which do not match James Holmes.
God forbid one would take away from this that there may have been multiple shooters.
And I might add that those are facts, not somebody saying James was a little weird and socially awkward after the fact.
That is a small percentage of what I have read on this site.
The official story doesn’t seem to add up, in fact it seems ridiculous, so people are trying to have critical discussion to figure out what really happened.
Just because a few people say he has been abducted by aliens, it was all a hoax, or he was body swapped etc doesn’t mean that all the evidence we have been discussing here isn’t relevant.
The official story is still that just, a story, a story that has not been confirmed and has in fact been coming undone in ways we listed earlier in this very thread.
See the 10 or so retracted items that basically convicted this guy in the public opinion court.
The first 3 were the biggest for me 1) He was detained while yelling out “I’m the joker” 2) He says he planted bombs in his apartment and won’t say anything else 3) His own mother said “you got the right guy”.
#2 has not as of yet been refuted.
I appreciate the effort I see here and the absence of the “alex jones” type reaction is great, see few exceptions above (aliens etc)
I see a lot of smart people playing detective and I think that is f*cking awesome.
Kind of reminds me of religious arguments. You say “God is real” I say “prove it”. You say “prove that he isn’t”.
The burden of truth is on those who are making the claim. If you claim he is guilty then prove it (should be easy for the prosecution, right?)
Were not claiming we know he had handlers etc we are saying we reject the current ludicrousness version of the story and seek answers.
I am having flashbacks of 12 angry men the black and white film.
It was only a matter of time until the trolls and shills crawled out from the woodwork…
I’m actually surprised it took this long.
Troll – Shrill. Cause I don’t agree with you, or bacause I brought information directly from a source you weren’t aware of. Or just because I proposed a fairly logical explanation of how things could have happened with just one shooter and matched it up with the visable evidence and the timeline based on that same information you’re looking at. I’ll leave the conversation, gladly. You all can go back to the MK Ultra theory for which no one has provided any evidence.
Thanks
Until we see security camera footage of James going around in the back of the theater, or even standing in line at the booth, until someone says “Hey I sold this guy his ticket” or “Hey this is the orange haired guy that sat in my row”, until that you’re evidence is as good as the evidence provided here.
Again, James Holmes has been placed at the scene by ZERO persons. Instead we have crime scene evidence that is put into illogical conclusions and a bunch of fake media stories that keep getting debunked. If you want to buy into that it’s your prerogative, but coming into a forum where people are honestly discussing evidence and then insulting everybody by claiming we’re talking about alien abductions is not the way to go.
I see most people trying to put together high probability scenarios, seeing as the official story seems like a very low probability scenario.
Comments that have been far left field and comments with a zero percent chance of being true (ie hoax story) have been quelled quite efficiently and politely.
I think some of the fringe imagination can sometimes be helpful in building more sound theories.
Also when people start to get to super elaborate usually they are getting of course.
I wouldn’t give our government that much credit.
I really wonder if that mask and shield were left because of a sloppy job or if they were both just dropped there by cops and then marked as evidence.
Because they both were marked as evidence.
Would they mark police items into evidence, I am guessing yes, which would easily explain mask and shield.
Not vanished…died. Chief Oates mentioned four people dying in hospital. He later changed that to two. There were not hundreds of casualties, and he was very specific in his numbers so what happened to the other two?
Sunshinez pretty much asked all of my questions already.
Here are a few more though:
1) “Obviously, when the police found him in riot gear they would have removed all of that immediately with a gun to the back of his head. No surprise that it’s in the parking lot.”
It’s not all that obvious to the general public. With all of the questioning going on about this case, one would think this would be something simple that Chief Oates could have clarified just to end speculation. There are NO details about what happened after he was detained. No timeline whatsoever. How long did they keep him at the back of the theatre, where did they take him next? Nothing.
2) I, too, what like to know what everyone who said it was “no surprise” that James did this, based their opinions on. It’s an easy statement to make, but there’s absolutely no substantiation for what you posted.
3) I’m not sure what you mean by “left on the street.” If you’re not home, they leave you a notice to pick up your package.
4) Has the husband of the woman that your wife works with been interviewed by the police?
5) Regarding what you said about the gas mask, wasn’t he found WEARING it?
I don’t know, at this point, I trust nobody involved in or around this case. No offense to you, but for all we know, you could just be part of the plan, sent to post on sites where people are questioning this case.
Honestly, I don’t have a ton of information from the classmate other than what I reported – which is that the guy says no one in the program was surprised it was him. What does that mean – it means he was wierd, awkward socially, probably made strange comments and made people uncomfortable when they interacted with him. This is backed up by the fact that the Dr. not only brought his case up to the university but went so far as to break Dr/Patient confidentiallity and talk to a police officer. That requires seriously alarming behavior.
As for people who weren’t alarmed by his behavior – so far those people seem to be random dudes who happened to sit next to him in a bar on Colfax. Colfax is the epicenter of Denver’s less than desirable population. So notoriuos that Playboy Mazagine once listed it as the longest, sleeziest street in America. Anyone frequenting a bar (I drove past the Zepher Lounge yesterday) on Colfax is certainly not what most of mainstream America would call a reasonable moral compass. Point being someone drinking in that bar has plently of problems of their own and isn’t going to be in much of a condition to make a mental health evaluation on a very smart, but very disturbed schizofrenic (sp)
UPS will absolutely leave a package on your doorstep unless the sender specifies otherwise. Generally, when I buy camera equipment I have it delivered to my office so that the package won’t be delivered to my home and left on the doorstep when I’m not home. In the neighborhood JH lives in a package wouldn’t make it ten minutes in front of that building.
Why didn’t 90 packages in two months raise any flags – the mail room serves a University and one of the largest medical campuses in the United States. Probably 20,000 people work on that campus. Why would anyone notice one single graduate student got a bunch of mail? Who would they even report it to anyway. I mean the Dr. reported the situation to the university’s threat assessment team and they didn’t even react. Why would some $8/hr. mail clerk processing thousands of pieces of mail a day notice or report anything regarding someone getting some mail – even every day. It’s a research campus. I’m sure lots of people get packages everyday for years on end – drugs, supplies, whatever.
My guess is that he was going crazy – clearly regardless of the court’s definition – we can all agree that anyone would would commit such an act is going crazy. I think perhaps his personality was splitting and he was becoming a jekel and hyde type. The hyde side being the killer the jekel being the fall guy. Perhaps the Hyde character actually sees them as two different figures litterally and decided to arm both of them. That would account for two handgus, two longs guns and two gas masks.
In terms of the time line, I have looked at it. I’ve listened to all the police recording etc. The first dispatch call took place at 12:39. Which means the shooting had to start, someone had to call 911 and the dispatch had to relay that information to police before the clock even starts. Also it’s said the whole event inside the theater lasted less than two minutes. If he started shooting at 12:38 let’s say and it took a total of 15 seconds for the first person to get out of the theater, make the 911 call and dispatch to activate the police recording timeline then he’s already apprximately 20% through the whole scenerio before police are even notified. It’s said they were on sceen in less than two minutes and arrested him very shortly after. While it may seem strange it’s actually not. If he started shooting at 12:38 and was arrested at 12:45 that means he had between 6 and seven minutes to operate. If he’s inside the theater actively shooting for less than two minutes then he’s outside of the theater not shooting for up to five minutes and a minimum of two minutes. All of that would give him plenty of time to walk the length of the building – it’s approximately 100 feet and be back at his car within one minute of exiting the theater.
Like I said, I agree that there are some things that don’t add up. However, in my estimation he acted alone, and the police have the right man. If they tampered with evidence, were some how unclear in their exact description of how they apprehended him etc. I don’t think that that adds up to a conspiracy any more than it adds up to simple human error/miscommunication amidst a very difficult situation.
I am curious…If you listened to the police reports you would know the police constantly talked of multiple shooters and multiple suspects…they even describe the the other suspects……There were also credible witnesses that described multiple shooters….
What seems strange about his arrest to me is that the police recording from that eve describe him as being in the car not outside of it…..
There is no evidence whatsoever either photographic, video or witnesses that place James Holmes in inside the theater that eve. Not one person ever said the guy with the orange hair was shooting, not one person ever even remebers seeing him in the theater.
In the police scanner tapes perhaps three (maybe four) times there are mentions that there are conflicting reports from witness and someone saw someone running up a street in a blue plaid shirt with a backback. In those same exact tapes you have the cop who is reporting from the arrest scene that the suspect in custody is telling them he’s the only one. So if your evidence is the scanner tapes and that’s all you’ve got them at least the cop who mentions that he’s saying he’s the only one is dealing with the person who is under arrest rather than a construction worker on the other side of the scene who says he saw someone running away from a mass murder – which of course might be the most logical thing to do in such a situation.
Some additional evidence I find not consistent with a msaa shooting of 50-70 people inside the theater. the video footage of the entrance of the theater is blood free, not one blood trail, blood stain etc…
The cell phone video we are show ad nauseum is not consistent with a a shooter inside the theater…the video I refer to is of the police that walks a man out of the theater and leaves all the moviegoers to mingle at the entrance of theater while supposedly a Guy with an AR-15 is shooting up the place.
But I believe one of the most important pieces of evidence and one you did not address is there is not one witness that identifies James as the shooter, there is not photographic evidence that places in the theater, there is not one video camera that catches him buying a ticket.
You say the police recordings are all I have??? Why if there are multiple reports of multiple shooters would the police determine the next morning that there was only one??? with reports and physical evidence that points to multiple shooters why wouldnt they leave no rock unturned to ensure public safety and investigate every possible lead on multiple shooters??? But the the next morning…they had already decided it was just one shooter.
The physical and photographic evidence in this case simply does not fit the official narrative.
Well, James must’ve had superhuman abilities to do all this so meticulously while doped up on Vicodin. Sorry, not buying the official story.
” which is that the guy says no one in the program was surprised it was him”
Really everyone in his program was just like, Oh shit I Knew It! Was only a matter of time!
On that note some retorts,
1) Does anyone have any theories on when his handlers would have started him on a drug cycle (not sure how that would work). If you did it maybe 2 months in advance that might be enough time for people to see J Homes mentally coming undone from the drugs and suspect something very bad was happening to him mentally.
2) I don’t really care much about the boxes either.
3) Sound like the shooter was far more cold and calculating than crazy or drugged up.
4) Time line does not make since. The shooter was everywhere at once. A drugged out shooter running the corridors then holding the exit doors shut to make sure no one comes out back to see his car?
I think they were trying to keep people from coming out those back doors to see the “reveal” to the trick. It reminds me a little of the movie “prestige”.
I just wanted to add that I am pretty sure James Holmes has not been able to form or speak a complete sentence since his arrest (we know the joker line was false, I am going to guess the bombs in his apartment thing might have been false as well.)
It’s really messed up that people do not care that this guy is a complete zombie who does one of the worst shootings in the U.S. of late and doesn’t say a f*cking word. I remember tuning into that first footage of him receiving his court hearing and wondering what he would say and what his demeanor would be only to find a guy with frog eyes drugged to high heaven.
Maybe people just say “Oh well, he is crazy that’s what crazy people do”. “Maybe he is faking………RIGHT………my god…..
Well he must be crazy because we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he killed all those people.
I agree that the drugging/mind control must have started a few months prior to the shooting. Lately I’ve been wondering whether Holmes had vague memories or was partially conscious of the suggestions/commands that may have been made to him but didn’t understand what was happening, which is why he sought psychiatric help. Maybe he told the psychiatrist (assuming he even saw a psychiatrist in the first place) something like he suspects he’s being mind-controlled or he’s ordered a bunch of weaponry and has no recollection how or why. (We definitely know he was at least drugged after the arrest, as his pupils are the size of saucers.)
If you haven’t already done so, you MUST check out this youtube video of **neighbor who says she saw Holmes running with a stocky man with dark hair around 7 p.m. the night of the shooting!!** If true, this man may have been Holmes’ drug-er / handler:
The video is titled, “Colorado Theater Shooter, Not A lone Gunmen?” by youtuber 15milerd.
(sorry, but I can’t paste this particular video in the comments for some reason)
I like how he is says we told authorities and they said “we will look into it” .
- Reminds me of Oates saying they had absolutely zero reason to look for another suspect a few hours after the crime occurred, when they clearly had some conflicting reports not only from witnesses but from police officers.
Check the booking report. He was arrested at 12:40. So first 911 call, 12:39. Arrested at 12:40. I call BS. By some witness accounts, he was on the left side of the theatre, going up the stairs. So he manages to make his way through all of the commotion in that theatre, get into his car all nice and comfy, and waits patiently for the police to come and get him. In one minute? Puh-leeze.
First time writer, long time lurker. In response to essohkay: This article mentions a colorado classmate who didn’t mention anything weird about him other than he was “quiet” Not saying you are wrong, just saying there are others saying different things about him. I’m on the fence with this whole case really. I think he’s either one of three things: framed, insane, or not the only shooter. Also, did your friend mention anything about Yeom Pyo Lee?
http://theweek.com/article/index/231156/james-holmes-what-we-know-about-the-alleged-aurora-shooter
Your article says plenty of weird things about him. Namely:
He and his five fellow students spent hours each day together in a small conference room. One of them said that Holmes was often the first to arrive, riding from his nearby apartment on a BMX bike. But once class began, he had a habit of daydreaming. “It’s like you’re interrupting” another train of thought that he was pondering, said the student, who asked not to be named because the school had urged Holmes’s classmates not to talk to the news media.
“I was always trying to get into his head,” said another student, who spent dozens of hours in class with the mostly silent Holmes. “If no one had ever said anything to him, he wouldn’t have said a word” all year. His fellow students could remember just one personal detail that Holmes revealed without prompting: During a conversation about football, he said he was a San Diego Chargers fan.
After classes, Holmes was always the first to leave. The others, who bonded during this close and intense experience, assumed he was just sequestered in his off-campus apartment.
These are all weird things. You spend almost an entire year sitting in the same room with someone for hours and hours a day and the only personel thing you know about them is they are a fan of the NFL team that plays in their home town.
I mean weird as in “I want to burn kittens” or something of that sort. Not weird as in quiet. Do you know how many socially awkward people there are that do not commit crimes? As a professional in the mental health field (almost LPC license), there are many individuals that fit that profile and are compassionate. Being shy does not equal mass murdering.
It’s infuriating that being quiet and a little socially awkward is conveniently considered an explanation of committing mass murder. I consider myself socially awkward and would never harm anyone.
The sad thing is, I’m sure that if the story had been something positive and not a tragedy, people around him most likely would’ve had nothing but good things to say about him.
^Exactly. I don’t think any of us have enough information yet to make an accurate judgement. If anything, it sounds as if he had some Social Anxiety. Look up DSM criteria. Most socially anxious do not commit crimes, or those with mental illness statistically, which is also stated in the DSM. Maybe he did it, maybe he didn’t. There is nothing wrong with questioning evidence, look at the Jonbenet Ramsey murder. That family was demonized in the media before it even went to trial and the evidence we know now, shows that it is unlikely the parents killed their child.
Okay I’ll try re typing this since, pasting the previous comment that didn’t post would not work…
I’m very shy and socially awkward, I have been for most of my life, even when I speak people can’t hear a word I say, I have a very quiet voice and I cannot abide shouting or aggression. I seem to possess more empathy and compassion for others, even complete strangers, than a lot of those that are considered “normal”. It is as you say, infuriating Sunshinez…
All valid points. It is also important to read the article with a certain amount of skepticism, knowing how the citation of quotes or examples is always selective, chosen to convey the impression the author of the article wants to share. Those cited may well have said more that didn’t make it into the article.
Holmes was living in a new part of the country where he knew few people. It’s not really a huge surprise that a socially awkward, introspective academic wouldn’t be well known by people after less than a year.
meesh is right — essohkay’s comments are valuable in developing a picture of Holmes, and I’m glad he shared them, but they are still only one perspective.
I also live in the area and understand the emotional reactions. But I think people are sometimes too quick to forget that the presumption of innocence is most important in cases where emotions are high. It’s what grounds us as a society so that convictions are made objectively on evidence on not on the emotions. So much evidence is still unavailable to the public that I find it hard still to draw any definitive conclusions other than that there are some significant irregularities here than need to be addressed.
That’s not weird to me. I’m a very introverted person, and I can relate to some of that behaviour. When someone doesn’t fit into society’s little molds, they’re automatically deemed “weird.” To me, that’s just ignorance.
Test
Test again
Feff, Word press has a ‘thing’ about certain words in a comment… it places the comment in the ‘spam’ box. Don’t ask.. I don’t know what the words are. but Scott will locate your comment and move it to the post comment section when he gets back on his computer.
This happens occasionally … not just you !
Ugh–why do my tests work, but not my post I’ve tried 8 times.
WordPress doesn’t post comments that contain certain words. Maybe that’s the problem here, others have experienced the same
Thanks, I’ve narrowed it down to one sentence, and I can’t possibly guess what word would be catching. 1 of 4 words, I’ve determined.
Ounce
Not ounce, how about Fascination?
Not ounce, not fascination, I’m guessing it’s not Narrative
How is m_a_j_o_r_i_t_y a blocked word?
Oh look, infamous witness Carli Rotten joined Facebook on July 23rd with a Music Group called “Buckshot”. Carli herself is called “Stitches” and she boasts about having more street cred than 50 Cent (who was famously shot 9 times). I just can’t believe this chick. Her credibility is officially shot to hell for me.
http://www.facebook.com/Buckshotfans
Exploiting a tragedy is not surprising to me.
These are tangential to the subject at hand, but not entirely OT:
When I think about Holmes, I can help but be reminded of the tv show Burn Notice. The premise of Burn Notice is that the main character, Michael Westen, is a spy with incredible talent and creativity who is unwittingly “recruited” by a professional black ops syndicate that works independent of any known government. This is accomplished through engineering Westen’s “burn notice”–basically framing him to make him look unreliable to his employer. The result is that Westen is “burned”–left with no cash, no bank accounts, no history, no identity–and thereby placed in a vulnerable enough position to be recruited by the black op.
Additionally, I happened upon a video today about two women who may have been MKUltra-like recruits, or, alternatively, who possessed a type of mental illness almost unheard of. It was fascinating to see what the mind (or what mind-control) is capable of:
watch?v=ggWOkor8t8s
*can’t help but be reminded
Interesting. There’s loads of stuff out there from MK-Ultra victims. Many people believe it’s not a real thing but there are declassified government docs on it. They can create anything from assassins to sex slaves through trauma-based mind control. The trauma they put their subjects through literally leads to a splitting of the person’s personality. Those different personalities can then be programmed at will. And they can be activated at will too.
Interesting if you think about the field James was in. I firmly believe his studies had something to do with this, though I think he might’ve come across something he didn’t want to participate in or wasn’t supposed to know. I doubt they would just use one of the most brilliant minds for some research.
Charlie Rose just did a series on the human mind. People from SALK Institute etc. I found it very informative and relative to this case. If you don’t know Charlie Rose he does a dam good interview show on PBS
People giving their opinion about Holmes mental state ‘after the fact’ have to be considered to be biased by their hindsight (especially when anonymous or fourth-hand). It easy to rewrite what had originally been taken as shy, reserved and quiet for sinister if you think the guy must have been plotting to kill people while you knew him.
A better indicator for how weird he was actualy see as are the quotes from people who have identified themselves publically.
His college transcript describes him as “a very effective group leader’and and a person who “takes an active role in his education, and brings a great amount of intellectual and emotional maturity into the classroom”.
His college Chancellor said, “I think he was kind of quirky, just the way you expect smart people to be. Quirky in the sense that he probably had a wry sense of humor. He kept to himself more than he socialized. But he was social. He wasn’t a hermit or an introvert. He wasn’t a loner.”
One of his highschool classmates said he had a small group of friends who played video games and were “a little nerdy.” That he was “really shy, really quiet, but really nice and sweet.”
Holmes also worked as a counsellor for disadvantaged teens.
Sure he could have changed dramaically even in the few months leading up to the shooting. Yet neighbors report going for beer with him in the week before with no other comments about changes in his behavior.
One thing I don’t have time to check at the moment. Some of the new reports are just full of inaccuracies ( at least a dozen in the last one I read). Some have said (in attempting to portray him as a loner nut) that he would regularly play really loud music and have blacked out windows and a strange purple light. Another statement by a neighbor said that on the night of the shooting she was distrubed by really loud music from his apartment. Are these things loud music/blacked out windows only a last moment (one night) change or had they being like that for months?
Another thing, The initial statement that he was seeing the Uni cousnellor (Fenton) for schizophrenia, has now been redacted. Either because they feel it was a bad idea to release it (yet redacting it doesn’t undo this) or becase the information may not be true. Fenton was doing research with graduate students on the use of World of Warcraft as a pscyhotherapeutic tool. Holmes, a graduate student in herfield, was an avid World of Warcraft player. It certainly possible he was involved in her reserach in some way and when the media saw a connection between him and the Uni counsellor they jumped to “He’s seeing a shrink because he’s nuts” conclusions.
Bingo. We don’t even know what the relationship to the psychiatrist was. She may have been an instructor/lecturer of his. Maybe they were collaborating together on a research project when she noticed a sudden change in his behavior (when the alleged drugging/mind-control began). Maybe Holmes seemed suicidal–not necessarily homicidal–which prompted a call to the Beta team. Who knows? I know that when I was in grad school, I had to find two committees of various instructors to play certain roles in the development and defense of my thesis–all within the first one or two semesters. Something like six or eight different professors total. I can only imagine that Holmes, a doctoral candidate in a “five-to-seven-year program,” must have had many affiliations with professors from various departments, as neuroscience encompasses aspects of multiple disciplines. He would have no doubt been encouraged to narrow his focus of study and find mentors and collaborators to help guide his research as he worked on a dissertation. Maybe Fenton was a mentor/collaborator.
But, I will say this now that the sarcastic post is out of the way. This is the one thing that has been on my mind too, why is it assumed he is a patient? They both study the mind, mentor to some degreee makes sense to me, it’s certainly a possiblity.
Hmmm this is the first time I’ve seen info linking him to World of Warcraft, do you have links for this info? I myself have been an avid World of Warcraft player for several years, couple that with my shyness and introversion and it seems I may be about to break and go on a rampage. Didn’t Anders Behring Brevik also play WoW avidly too? Perhaps I should commit myself right now for the sake of the public and myself….
n.b. The above should be read with an air of heavy sarcasm..
Looks like we’re in the same boat. Both socially awkward and shy, yet friendly and helpful when put into situations with other people. You play WoW, I play Call of Duty where I shoot and blow up imaginary enemies. I think it’s safe to say we’re high risk people.
It’s kinda sad that that would probably be the first thing that would be brought up afterwards by people who had limited knowledge about us. Oh, he/she was shy and strangely liked to play WoW/Call of Duty. Typical.
^Also sarcastic of course.
No , sunshinez and Aether, you are both wrong…. sorry…but you will be remembered for your comments that portrayed your investigation and HIGH interest in the famous James E. Holmes case….. ‘they’ will say that “birds of a feather stick together”…… now that is scary!
Also sarcastic of course……
Wow (World of Warcraft) gives you a way to be socially active judged only by your mind and actions, not how ugly or weak looking you are etc.
I have had some great experiences with guilds (a guild is like a group of friends, family, or even business partners) and made connections with all types of people.
You work together with a group to accomplish goals.
I no longer play WoW, and I also have never seen any sources saying Mr. Holmes was a player, but I think the point is moot anyways.
It didnt post here it goes again
“They (police officers?) were moving the victims to where they had just arrested him”.
- So they were moving the victims near James Holmes car? that seems dangerous.
Is there a source on this and is there more?
Seems like a great find.
Oops didn’t see the video at bottom of the link. Wow great find!
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21173727/aurora-college-student-thought-mom-greek-philosophers
Yeah and at first I thought he was saying and his car, but it’s pretty clear to my ear that he says-
…”moved them over where they arrested him IN his car. We could see the car and his gear”
People dont say
…”moved them over where they arrested him, and his car. We could see his car and his gear”
Makes sense considering the smashed in window. He was probably sitting on the passenger side.
So I am seeing some new footage from a phone camera.
It’s at 5:22 in video. I am having a hard time orientating where they are in the footage.
Referring to video at the bottom of this page http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21173727/aurora-college-student-thought-mom-greek-philosophers
Took me forever to find this article again.
I think its a waste of time to be going back and forth on hearsay about his personality, based on one post, by someone who never posted again, and claimed to have a friend, who has a wife, who… blah blah.
First description of him that I have heard of that.
Most are like this:
“People are using the word ‘loner’ to describe him, and that’s not a fair representation,” said a fellow doctoral student at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus who knew Holmes and agreed to be interviewed on condition of anonymity.
He has friends. He’s quiet and keeps a low profile, but we’re all like that. We’re PhD students. There’s not a lot of time to do other stuff,” the student said.
The University of Colorado doctoral student said Holmes’ fellow grad students were as shocked as anyone.
“We all think the same thing as everyone – that he was pushed past his breaking point,” the young man said. “But I, personally, don’t know what that breaking point was.”
Holmes, he said, complained over beers about academic pressure, just like the other students did. But within his small circle of doctoral student friends and classmates, that was not unusual.
“He was very quiet, that’s true. And he did not seem to me to be the kind of person who would take matters into his own hands like this.”
from reuters article 7/22
Bottom line, we are trying to look at facts. Which to my extreme frustration are still never brought up.
Oh, and @sunshinez WAY back up there… 12:40 was his arrest time at the theatre, not booking time
Judge also ruled today defense experts not allowed to be present for evidence testing:
http://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/18th_Judicial_District/18th_Courts/12CR1522/12CR1522%20Order%20Re%20Defendants%20Motion%20to%20Allow%20Confidential%20Defense%20Experts%20to%20be%20Present%20for%20Scientific%20Testing%20of%20Evidence%20D6.pdf
Now I have to try and settle down so I can get some sleep!!
- “Additionally, Defendant has the right to independently test any scientific evidence, and may call witnesses at trial to testify as to the scientific testing results.”
- “Defendant does not have the right to have a confidential expert present during the People’s scientific testing of all evidence.”
….so prosecution gets “private access?” first to “test” evidence, perhaps tamper / destroy / alter without a set of eyes from the defense there to witness?
So defense can challenge experts or test on their own, they just get seconds? Am I reading that right?
-Big fish eat the little ones
Just read a bit further
- “Confidential Defense Experts to be Present for Scientific Testing of Evidence is GRANTED as to consumptive or destructive testing.”
In other the words the prosecution can alter the f*ck out of most of the evidence, whether intentional or not?
As long as they don’t destroy the evidence they can alter it as they please with no supervision?
I think the defense can be there during the testing but can not have an expert present, unless it’s destructive testing. I assume most or all testing will be deemed non-destructive.
Defense argues that without their expert they “will lose any realistic ability to confront the People’s evidence as to such testing” and because “the People’s testing of evidence may destroy or alter the evidence.”
Defense says all testing is destructive by nature. Judge disagrees.
-sorry for so many posts in a row….
I’m not surprised. The defenses claim makes sense to any sane person. Too bad judge Sylvester has already been proven to be crooked from past rulings.
Thats why both the prosecution and the defense are employees of the state…..A private attorney would not tolerate any of this and would be vocal about the nature of these proceedings…a private attorney would be filing all kinds a motions etc…..
Still affluent parents from San Diego retain their own attorney but not one for their 24 year old student/son who could be facing the death penalty…….I am not buying it….
I thought this was an open and shut case why all the struggle, I thought he was caught red handed?
James Holmes’ attorneys try to block CU from turning over records
http://www.canoncitydailyrecord.com/news/colorado/ci_21332872/holmes-attorneys-try-block-cu-from-turning-over
“The debate — which came during a brief procedural hearing — highlighted the inch-by-inch legal struggle likely to dominate the case for months to come…
—-Am I missing something, why should the prosecution even need this evidence, I was under the impression their evidence was vast and rock solid. Maybe I am being naive and the prosecution is just being thorough.
Their case needs to be airtight, they don’t wanna leave anything up to chance. Especially in case they will seek the death penalty.
I still kinda hope it’s a sign of them knowing that there are gaping holes in the case and trying to get as much damaging info as possible.
My guess would be the prosecution is going to try to use his school records to show he is sane and thus beat the insanity plea. A very different story than the media is putting out there. I don’t know. It’s strange
Hey Steve! Stumbled across this site that helps some of us to tell the difference between actual data and disinfo. Before I came to your site I did not know what ‘disinfo’ was, so I am an infant on this sleuth seeking of truth compared to you. I wanted to go to all your same mind followers and tell them about this site. So instead of bombing your site with links to others, I hope you will share in more proper ways. Thank you
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/
test
Oh wow I see I’m not the only one having posting problems lol
news from Aurora:
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/world/james-holmes-case-professor-gregory-f-sullivan-suspended-for-aurora-theater-shooting-comment
Professor had just dimmed the class room lights in order to show a learning film….. he made a comment to his class about, if a red haired person enters the room, run for the exit.
I think that the act of trying to show a film clip in a dimmed room caused the professor to make a slight joke… he had no malice in mind but one of his students (her father had been one of the 12 killed)……so the student walked out and filed a complaint..
Lesson: any one speaking out of turn (?) about this ‘event’ will also be punished……
really strange town, this Aurora..
Not in the slightest. Completely right to suspend the guy. Cracking jokes about something like that in that situation is thoroughly out of place for a professional educator and saying he wasn’t aware of the email notifying all staff of the student’s loss is either him covering up for his awareness or a sign of further negligence at his job. The guy does have tenure though so the Dean recommending he be fired for it is certainly going too far (especially after he apologized) and smacks of excessive political correctness.
We went and seen Total Recall, the other night, and one of the 3 daughters who was there with me said something about she would kill me for throwing a rolled up napkin at her (yes, I’m still a kid at heart), and I said that wasn’t a good thing to say in a theater.
Unfortunately for our sense of humors we all cracked up laughing for several minutes. Luckily there was only one couple also there to see the movie, and they didn’t seem to get to excited about it.
Its a natural way of relieving tension…. not laughing at the event but at the fear of it..
To me the shocking thing is… you paid to see Total Recall?
I have to admit I expected better of it. Yes, we paid, but we had 2 for one coupons, my one daughter used her college ID, so it was $5 for her and I. I Did have a free coupon, though I didn’t use it. Did spend $11 for a tub of popcorn and pop, which they refill. The other two daughters paid full price for their 2 for one, which works out to about $4.50 per. They don’t usually make to much on us, and they usually give us some good deal to, that kind of know us when we come. Think we paid total total, $25 for the 4 of us. Not to bad, with dinner too. : ) If the other daughter had come, I’d have used my free pass. Love that theater. lol
Plus we get more two for one coupons, and usually a free pass when we go. lol
This occurred on Long Island, not in Aurora.
sorry for the error…. thanks Doug
Totally insensitive especially considering the teacher had to know the daughter’s father was among the dead — but honestly, my first thought was he was actually doing an experiment to see if people who actually tell if someone had big red hair while watching a film in a dimmed room.
one more link:
http://www.9news.com/news/article/283503/188/Aurora-shooting-prompts-gun-bills-in-big-states-
gun control seems to be going State wide….. leaving Obama free of blemish of trying to dis-arm American civilians….
Because of the recent rise in gun caused violence…
wonder if they have noticed the bomb and gun violence caused by Obama’s and Hilliary’s blood soaked wars? Who will make laws to disarm Obama and Hilliary?
I wasn’t sure where to put this-Apparently the nurse who treated the aurora victems has drowned??
“victims”-http://www.herald.ie/news/irish-heroine-of-batman-shooting-spree-drowns-3201886.html
That link didn’t work, Pamela. But, I found two articles from that site. The one I found today, was VERY interesting.
http://www.herald.ie/news/my-jenny-loved-saving-lives-says-husband-of-drowned-batman-hero-3202626.html
In it, her husband says that “The hardest thing is I may never know what really happened to Jenny.”
Well, she drowned. So that makes no sense. Unless he wants to know “how” it all went down, but the article makes no mention as to whether her friend survived or not.
The article also mentions that she worked that morning, and dealt a lot with the shooting victims.
They went to Ohio City…yes, in Colorado….. looks like a very small city way out in the boondocks… looks like a national park there and a few ranches, plenty of trees and space… quiet and out of the way of everything…
So what happened to this friend, and why can’t they say what happened? And who is this friend?
I don’t understand how he will never know what happened to her if said friend was out there on the lake with her. Surely he/she must’ve seen what was going on? She just couldn’t stay afloat? Wouldn’t someone who isn’t a good swimmer stay away from swimming out in deep water?
I posted this on another blog post where the same incident was mentioned. After I read about this woman I was looking up something about autopsies on drowning victims, and came across an article that sums up why drowning can be very hard to diagnose in a victim. Some points:
-The diagnosis of drowning is complicated by the fact that there are no specific tests to prove drowning and there are no autopsy findings that in and of themselves prove drowning. (Dix, Graham and Hanzlick at p 21).
-What aggravates these situations is the fact that no reliable tests permitting an unequivocal diagnosis of drowning are available. (Spitz and Fisher at p 353)
-At autopsy, the lungs of a drowning victim commonly resemble those seen in deaths associated with severe pulmonary edema, as in cases of arteriosclerotic heart disease. (Spitz and Fisher at p 353)
-The presence of pulmonary edema is of no help, as it might be present in drug overdoses, heart failure or drowning. (at p 406)
I don’t want to speculate too much without enough evidence/information, but I thought it was interesting. Especially the part about drug overdoses.
http://netk.net.au/Reports/DiagnosticsofDrowning.asp
Although very close timing there’s no real benefit in over-examing anything not backed up by some form of evidence or reasonable assumption. Despite what they say, it is possible for lightning to strike twice in the same place and there is nothing at present to support it being anything other than a tragedy.
That said, “Once is happenstance, Twice is coincidence, Three times is enemy action.” If a pattern did form, or if the specific circumstances of her death are unusual, it would be notable.
I only posted that as an item of interest.And I agree with you.
I know (thanks for the link!)
In conjunction with the recent intentionally set fire at Fitz apartments, it does start to raise a tiny flag. I agree with what you said, but it’s always good to keep track of these little things.
yes, it is !
“She worked the morning after the Batman massacre in a very busy unit of the hospital — so she saw everything really, some really bad injuries.”
I’m just hoping that she actually saw “really bad injuries” and not “the MAKING of really bad FAKE injuries” at the hospital.
I’m hoping she didn’t overhear Obama being briefed on a story about one of those fake injuries.
Even though I want to stay optimistic, it’s getting harder and harder, I don’t know about you guys.
Just saw someone post something on one of the FB groups…Now I can’t verify this of course but here goes:
“I just heard from a friend on GLP, she has a friend that knew the nurse, Jennifer, that just died. Apparenlty, the official story is that she went for a midnight swim, never came back. They then found her dead. He says this was completely out of character for her.”
Her husband did say that he and their son were sleeping when Jenifer went with a friend to the lake… strange…. at midnight?
wonder who the friend was?
wait… if ‘he’ was asleep, how did he know his wife and a friend went swimming at the lake?
I suppose the friend noticed that she had died and went back to notify him. What I don’t understand is why someone who’s “not a good swimmer” would go into a lake at midnight. Not to mention the temperatures over there are not the same as say over here in CA. It’s cold, doesn’t seem like a night swim would be something to just do.
good point sunshinez, the water would have been chilly……
and two women alone? At midnight? Of course I am taking for granted that the friend was a woman….. (she was married)
if you look at the location by the sat feed…. you see a lake surrounded by woods… seems like an isolated and lonely spot….
The picture of Jennifer shows a healthy and athletic looking young woman…. and surely she was smart enough to know her limits….
so sorry about this happening to her……
Not sure if this was posted anywhere, forgive me if it was…It’s James’ eviction notice.
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/0809/20120809_023533_HolmesEvictionForm.PDF
Notice the reason for eviction, “You murdered numerous individuals”.
Oh really? A little too eager there? Didn’t know he was already tried and proven guilty. What a strange thing to put on there.
No kidding. Is that even legal? He’s stating in the document that he “murdered numerous individuals” without there even being a trial yet. Legally speaking, James Holmes is innocent at this moment in time, so those statements cannot be made. The booby trapping however, may be a more legitimate reason to evict someone, but even so, he hasn’t been convicted for that either. I’m sure his attorneys didn’t even want to bother fighting that. I mean really, its such a small matter compared to the task at hand.
Well, if he is found innocent, though not likely with his present legal team, he will have a good case for slander.
Ok so I was thinking about this point today as well. If his legal team was so sure of his guilt and was most indefinitely going for the insanity plea, then why would they care about scientific evidence testing (including those of bullet casings)? Any legal experts out there want to answer this for me? This case is seriously upsetting me, not only because of what happened to those people, but because I don’t know if its being handled correctly so that justice (whatever that may be) will be served. Granted, he could very well be a cold blooded killer, but I want the EVIDENCE to prove it. Not some talking heads commentary about him being “socially awkward”!
Seems most people are taking it for granted that there is hard evidence that he committed the crime and the real question is whether he is sane or not.
Maybe the prosecution has already shared the solid evidence with the defense so they both know its just a game of insanity vs sanity at this point?
Seems like bullshit that the Landlord would say “because you murdered numerous individuals” and …
WTF……
You are facing multiple felonies in connection with YOUR illegal activities.
These illegal activities have not yet been proven to be “his”.
I see, there is definitely hard evidence against him, no doubt about that and I definitely agree with that. That being said, it is still possible he was framed or there were multiple shooters. I guess I’m looking for hard evidence as in google searches for bomb making or a witness who actually saw him in the theater. I think that is what doesn’t sit well with me, the inconsistency with some of the evidence we already know about. Makes me think of other cases where it appeared the person “clearly” did it and then we find the smoking gun that it was someone else entirely. Things aren’t always as they may seem. P.S. I’m still not over Yeom Lee or whatever his name is. Chief oates acted like it was nothing and his relationship was so inconsequential, but why would anybody in their right mind send police a threatening message?!?! Huh!?!?!
I assume we have not seen any hard evidence because everything is sealed.
I hope that one day (at the very least after the trial) that hard evidence will be released.
All that being said this case seems extremely shady and corrupt which makes it that much more interesting to study.
Also this just came out
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/17/13335711-students-with-gun-permits-get-segregated-dorms-at-university-of-colorado?lite
Colorado University is going to segregate law abiding students who have gun permits …from those who do not.
Just wanted to say again how messed up recent articles like this one are clearly insane levels of spin.
“Holmes doesn’t react to talk of struggling victims”
HOW INSENSITIVE OF MR. HOLMES, HUH??
* Surprise, he is not reacting only to talk of struggling victims he is not reacting to anything because……(drum roll) he can’t use his conscious mind to form words! He is in another place and has no idea what is going on around him. Just like ABCs FBI analyst guy says on his first pre trial court appearance. Though they try to sell you on the fact he just snapped and is now mentally far far away. I am not buying that horsesh*t.
Are we to believe he “snapped” after he shot all those people, because the guy in court can barely walk.
Also I feel like cops being on the scene immediately in something very similar to swat gear (like the killer was wearing) needs to be explored further.
Here is the link for ridiculous article
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/16/holmes-doesnt-react-to-talk-struggling-victims/#ixzz23kxWcOrO
“Holmes was wide-eyed but didn’t show any reaction. He mostly looked ahead but glanced at Orman a few times.”
Really, wide-eyed like alert and coherent.
or
Wide-eyed like saucer-eyed frog man drugged the f*ck up.
This kind of sh*t makes me sick.
Right, he could even be schizo and have flat affect. Or he’s coming off drugs. We really don’t know. What do they expect? Him to cry about it and say “i’m sorry” when he kept his mouth shut and was “not cooperating” when apprehended? I have yet to hear a confession, something, clearly linking him. I am almost positive he’s not a sociopath, so why else would he keep his mouth shut? Perhaps because his involvement is not what we think it is. From what we know, he does not fit the criteria in the DSM for sociopath so why else would he keep his mouth shut?
Also, p.s. everyone thinks Im crazy for thinking its possible he didn’t do it or may have some other involvement. Blame the media and the drones in America they have created. Sorry I don’t digest what I’m handed-the sign of educated minds (ha! toot my own horn!)
Most people are too busy to care, plus it seems like mental masturbation because we are so powerless to do anything.
At least I think most people feel helpless to do anything.
That has always been the difference since at least the Roman Empire (who more or less got it from the Greeks). The ptb always got there children a classical education (or liberal arts education, as it is mostly called to today, and that is what almost everybody in America use to receive, and if liberal means left, why are there conservative liberal arts schools? or even christian?), which teaches in a broad generalist type of way, to install abstract and critical thinking skills, as well as a solid basis for the way the world works. so that a person that receives it has a good foundation to be able to learn and become whatever they set their mind to.
Where the lower classes, if they receives any education at all, receives a vocational. technical or very specific education designed for labor and none critical or abstract thought. America has come full circle right back to the education system as it was meant for controlling populations in the old world, though certainly with some rather new more effective twist to the old concepts, completely away from our liberal heritage (which is what conservative actually means, tradition).
Hardly any of these people are actually liberal, they are Tory (get a hoot out that if you look it up where it originated, and it would be most apt to start referring them all such), which was the tradition or conservatism of the era of the founding of this country. That is they were the royalist / elitist we fought against for INDEPENDENCE, not interdependence.
Well said.
So this video from Evacuees near his Apartment Building I found it very interesting.
I highly recommend watching this one.
What are the girls saying? My sound system is messed up.
Basically, they see cops and swat etc, they were told to go back in doors and watch the news if they want to know whats going on. The police got hostile when asked what was going on, swearing at the girls etc.
So the girls called news tip line and media showed up at which point they were finally evacuated, several hours after the threats of bombs were made and I assume confirmed.
Why would swat swarm this building filled with bombs? I mean really crashing through windows on Holmes apartment building, seems mighty dangerous.
And wouldn’t they immediately evacuate surrounding buildings with that many bombs inside?
Thank you Democracyanddespotism, (wheww…that is a long tag name)
that is strange…. never heard of a bomb threat being handled that way…… yes, evacuation is always the first priority……
good fine on this video…
So did she say the police busted out the first floor windows? Huh? Did I hear that right? He lived on the third floor. Plus it sounds like it was a rough area so I’m sure there were “weird guys” everywhere and a military base nearby. Just a conjecture, but maybe somebody from the military who knew how to make bombs aided Holmes in the apartment or actually constructed them while Holmes was drugged out in the passenger side of his vehicle.
Do basically those young ladies (Hispanics do seem to think some clearly and are less accepting of official stories to some extent), are saying the police had already broke in windows and doors to Holmes’ apartment and had already been all over it before they then acted like there was some big threat and couldn’t go into it till all the “bombs” were defused. To bad we don’t have people in the area that could do some sleuthing and investigation, of some of this witnesses to see what they have to say now, something I’ve been suggesting to some extent for some 20 years or so (since before Waco), though certainly we have made some progress in that aspect, but clearly not enough.
I personally believe that the whole bombs at the apartment story is a bunch of horsesh*t.
You mean to tell me that the explosives and trip wires at the apartment were so sophisticated that you couldn’t even send a bomb squad in, but the next day you have people busting out his windows like it’s nothing in short sleeve shirts?
And what about those videos that show them transporting the bombs away in sand (obviously so they don’t move and accidentally blow up) in the back of a truck to a remote location, but then you see some guy just unloading the bombs and passing them to another guy without any protective gear?
Are we supposed to be this dumb?
Ya WTF is up with those guys in casual clothes leisurely taking bombs off the truck.
And why aren’t the cops more cautious, they make arrest and stand near Holmes’ car, they don’t shut down parking lot around theater immediately(think it took 10mins, from start of shooting), they are crashing into his first floor apartment building without any medical on scene, my god, they don’t evacuate neighbors for roughly 2 hours?,
Just seems like a small percentage of swat/cops like Oates are not too worried about a lot of what should be “unknowns”.
His dam “We have no evidence to support that claim”…….ad nauseam.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31363132/detail.html
Interesting article here. If Fenton really thought Holmes was a threat then she would have designated him as a level 4 and law enforcement would have been involved, but as we know, that did not happen, otherwise tragedy would have been averted. So if he is so evil, how come nobody picked up ANY signs at all? Not even a level 4 designation? I find it difficult to understand how a schizophrenic (which is what most are assuming now) would have shown no obvious signs. Seems like the BETA team was on it with other incidents. How did this kid/adult fall through the cracks?
at
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_21332494/james-holmes-attorneys-try-block-cu-from-turning
At bottom of article it is reported that:
“The Aurora Victim Relief Fund holds $4.4 million, said a spokeswoman for the Community First Foundation, which is administering the fund. About $200,000 has been distributed so far.”
Wonder how that money is being used? And accounted for?
Also, this pre trial is being set for mid November………past the term limit for the present prosecutor…….bound to be making her feel spiteful about this case…. a national and global event that will be snatched from her hands….
wonder if her hands will reach for a portion of the Relief Fund?
Heres the faculty list for the neuroscience program at Anschutz
http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicalschool/programs/Neuroscience/People/Pages/Faculty.aspx
I don’t know if you guys saw this video, sorry for double posing if someone posted it already…This is the first time I saw media posing some, what I’d call “real” questions…
The link is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMB–jFfN_M&feature=player_embedded#!
If it does not work, search for “theatre shooter had help 2012″ on Youtube
Not sure, but I believe it has been put up before…. and it is an important video.. but did you notice that only 191 views? and it was put up on July 24? I find that strange….
While viewing the many videos referenced here, I came across this one, which is another ‘witness’ describing more than one shooter. Not only this, she mentions something I haven’t heard before. The Theatre alarm system is a Speech Alert System – so she says she heard the alarm saying ‘Murder in the Theatre…Murder in the Theatre!’…I looked into this a little further and these systems do exist, they are expensive but widely used at industrial complexes mostly. Here is one link I found to these security systems. Unbelievable if true! Listen at 0.46 to this………
http://www.ultrasecuredirect.com/acatalog/security_outdoor_speech_recording_alarm_alert_system.html?gclid=CLrfm56N8bECFQODDgod2UcAQQ
Marie did you ever post a link to the blog you were working on? Id really like to read it.
Pamela, if you click on her name it comes up
thank you
Pretty sure the P.A. System said emergency in the theater, might have sounded like murder. She says they had shot guns, they?
Sorry to debunk your statement Democracy, but I feel that she makes it obvious that she was in theater 8 and did not personally see the shooters/shooter from where she was.
This was also immediately after the shooting and she was relaying information that others had passed on to here, such as when she says “Somebody said that there was like 20 people all together injured.” Reading into her statements that way is very similar to how the news handled James’ mothers statement of “You got the right person”
All good. We don’t like “yes men” around here anyways.
I am just saying I have seen a few interviews where witnesses say the alarm said “There is an emergency in the theater” Could easily sounds like”There is a murder in the theater”(in a smokey, stressful, bloody situation).
I vaguely remember some witness saying the alarms didn’t come on until most of the damage was done. Can anyone confirm this.
This girl seems super emotional wish also leads me to believe she is just making a small error.
Much more interesting is how she says “they” had shotguns, near the end of the video……
I agree, she probably is relaying what she heard from other victims regarding all of the “they” references. Not an eyewitness herself I would imagine.
I heard the fire alarm was pulled early and I heard the alarm went off late, I am getting conflicting reports on fire alarm.
I am really interested in what time the alarm started going off.
Wouldn’t they stop the movie and turn lights on in the theater?
Was most of the staff working in the Lobby running outside because of the alarm like a fire drill?
Where cops on scene and in the lobby while the alarm was going and/or when the gun man was still shooting?
Also still think the girl hearing “murder in the theater” just miss heard “emergency in the theater”
I agree with the emergency in the theater thing. The way I understand it, the emergency alarm is supposed to automatically stop the movie and turn the lights on. Sounds like it was disabled somehow maybe
Chris, how do you know that the emergency alarm should do what you said? As far as I am aware a recordable speech alert system is not linked with the computer software that plays the movie. But please direct me to this. We know 100% that the movie continued to play throughout the ordeal even while cops were inside the cinema – they are pleading for the movie to be turned off through their dispatcher!
Incorrect. Several witnesses inside of theater 9 reported that about a minute into the shooting the lights and movie went off so no one could see
there are recordings of the responders that day yelling into the radio about turning off the film because they couldn’t see and hear what was going on. Unless you think they staged that, the reality is, no one turned the film off immediately. It’s NOT important though. As ANYONE can understand, once shots rang out, it is very likely that the technician who was monitoring the films in a control area ran for cover. It’s a meaningless point.
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