by Scott Creighton
After his stellar performance suggesting he would like to overturn the Civil Rights Act of ’64, Ron Paul then went on Fox News to explain to all their viewers that Social Security and Medicare were unconstitutional, even though the Supreme Court found them to be constitutional in 1937 under Article 1, section 8 - the General Welfare clause.
To Rep. Paul the idea of establishing the general welfare of the country means protecting “the markets” and he feels that that was the original intent of the constitution (he’s wrong) and that “liberals” have been lying to students all this time. Rep. Paul feels that we need to change that so I guess he want’s government to remain just big enough to teach his interpretation of history to our kids.
I suppose Ron Paul’s history lesson would probably omit people like Alexander Hamilton, one of the participants in the Constitutional Convention and a representative from the state of New York who just so happened to sign it as well. You see, Paul’s interpretation of history would have to omit one of our founding fathers because the original intent of Article 1 section 8 was debated by Hamilton way back then and it’s been well established ever since.
transcript of Ron Paul with Mike Wallace of Fox News:
“You talk a lot about the Constitution,” Fox News’ Chris Wallace noted Sunday. “You say Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all unconstitutional.”
“Technically they are,” Paul insisted. “There is no authority. Article 1, Section 8 doesn’t say I can set up an insurance program for people. What part of the Constitution — liberals are the ones that use this general welfare clause.”
“Doesn’t Social Security come under promoting the general welfare,” Wallace asked.
“Absolutely not,” Paul replied. “Maybe sound currency is general welfare, maybe markets, maybe judicial system, maybe a national defense, but this is specific welfare. This justifies the whole welfare state. The military industrial complex, the welfare to foreigners, the welfare state that imprisons our people and impoverishes our people and gives us our recession.”
“That is such an extreme liberal viewpoint that has been mistaught in our schools for so long. That’s what we have to reverse, that very notion you’re presenting,” he added.
“Congressman, it’s not just a liberal view. It’s the decision of the Supreme Court in 1937 when they said that Social Security was constitutional under Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution,” Wallace explained.
“The Constitution and the court said slavery was legal, too. We had to reverse that. So, I tell you. Just because a court in ’37 went very liberal on us and expanded the role of government, no, I think the original intent is not a bad idea,” Paul opined.
Remarkably, Paul then went on to suggest that Social Security and Medicare are the cause of our economic problems today. Does anyone here really think that granny’s monthly $800 check is crushing the economy?
Raw Story has a video of the interview.
He got a little twisted up when Wallace asked him about the Supreme Court ruling of 1937. He stated that the courts and the constitution had originally stated that slavery was legal “too”, but they had to reverse that. Meaning his argument for the sanctity of the original intent of the constitution doesn’t really hold up when you consider other little changes we have made since like ending slavery. So why of course even if he is correct does that mean that we have to adhere to the original intent on Article 1 section 8? But then again, he did say “I think the original intent is not a bad idea”… is that the original intent with or without slavery?
Point is, everything Ron Paul doesn’t like, everything that doesn’t fit into his pro-business neoliberal agenda, is unconstitutional like the civil rights act, the department of education, unions, Social Security, Medicare, and any regulations in general that keep businesses from being able to sell more rat shit in their Wheaties.
The Supreme Court obviously ruled in ’34 as to the original intent of that clause, Ron Paul just simply dismisses them as being “liberal”. But it’s harder for Ron to admit that the clause was very specifically debated back in the days when it was written and it was generally accepted, even by some who didn’t want to, that the broad interpretation of Article 1 section 8 was in fact the correct one.
“Alexander Hamilton, only after the Constitution had been ratified, argued for a broad interpretation which viewed spending as an enumerated power Congress could exercise independently to benefit the general welfare, such as to assist national needs in agriculture or education, provided that the spending is general in nature and does not favor any specific section of the country over any other” Wiki
This narrow view was later overturned in United States v. Butler. There, the Court agreed with Justice Story’s construction, holding the power to tax and spend is an independent power; that is, the General Welfare Clause gives Congress power it might not derive anywhere else. However, the Court did limit the power to spending for matters affecting only the national welfare. The Court wrote:
| “ | [T]he [General Welfare] clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. … It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution. … But the adoption of the broader construction leaves the power to spend subject to limitations. … [T]he powers of taxation and appropriation extend only to matters of national, as distinguished from local, welfare. |
“It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution…”
Personally I think Alexander Hamilton had a slightly better idea of the original intent of the constitution than Ron Paul does since Hamilton was there at the Constitutional Convention and since he signed the damned thing, but maybe that’s my flawed “liberal” education talking.
Oh, and just as a side note, you know that “liberal” court that ruled in ’37 that Social Security and Medicare were constitutional under Article 1 section 8 of the US Constitution? That “liberal” Supreme Court ruling was under the control of Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes, a Republican from New York who was hailed as a “leading American conservative“. Chief Justice Hughes voted in the majority.
Perhaps Mr. Paul’s interest in this matter extends beyond just Social Security and Medicare because the above statement from the Supreme Court ruling certainly seems to make that point perfectly clear. Congress had the perfect right to authorize expenditures of money not limited by legislative power found in the Constitution.
Social Security and Medicare are clearly “constitutional”.
So why all this fuss? If Mr. Paul thinks sticking to the original intent of the constitution is not such a bad idea, then he should be happy because we are.
Filed under: Scott Creighton
Ron Paul is annoying me more and more every day. Recently he did an interview with Elliot Spitzer where he said that the government, through FEMA has no constitutional authority to help out areas that are devastated by floods, tornadoes, hurricanes and such. This kind of thinking is what made George Bush so hated immediately after Katrina, and it is in line with Herbert Hoover’s thinking during the depression.
Essentially: do nothing and hope for the best. Too bad for all those people that die on your watch. This is the guy that is being paraded by shameless self promoters like Alex Jones as the messiah of change? You mean like the left liberal fakers did with Barkey?
Just in case you’re curious, here is the interview with Spitzer:
That’s amazing isn’t it? In one week he renounces the Civil Rights Act, Social Security, Medicare, and now rescuing drowning people while the flood gates are literally opening as we speak.
I wonder if he is being used as the foil, the “threat” if you will that is supposed to motivate Obamaoids to get out and “rock the vote” so he doesn’t win. “Anything but Ron” campaign already starting up in the fake left websites.
I think you got a good point, Willy…. Ron is getting a lot of news media attention….. Obama’s ratings are way down….. the severe budget for next year, doesn’t it take down ss and medicare? So Ron is getting the public ready …….Obama’s ratings wll go up when he refuses to allow complete dismantling of ss…. just the beginning of it….. he’ll look like a hero…… a murdering ‘rights’-stealing president.
Yes, as documented here Obama’s regime has been spectacularly successful for the bankers and globalists. They are making sure they get four more years of the same. Also Ron Paul has been one of the most visible critics of the insane global wars. So now in Ron Paul we find the anti-war movement associated with racism and mean treatment of old and sick people.
Truth is most people oppose the wars but in the media-controlled debate any potentially appealing critic of the military/intelligence/security state is eventually branded as a radical extremist, a loon, or pervert.
Paul disputes the entire history of constitutional self government in this country, basically asserting that the “government” has been doing it wrong from the beginning.
He’s not really a constitutionalist as he claims, he’s a neo-confederate. He doesn’t approve of the constitution, the way it has been interpreted and the way it has been implemented. The Confederation and in many ways the Confederacy were more “liberal” and more “free,” at least according to his lights.
The Constitution and the central government it set up — which has been operating ever since — are akin to slavery. They’re worse than slavery in many ways.
Slavery which was, of course, fought tooth and nail by those sainted Founders who got rid of it.
It was the hated Liberals who re-enslaved everyone with their unconstitutional Social Security and Medicare and FEMA and all that nonsense.
Simple.
I agree with Paul. Mob rule is not freedom. Without freedom civil society falls apart. It’s happening, look around.
who the hell isn’t going to say that civil society needs “freedom”? it’s such an obvious cliche it’s ridiculous. of course you need freedom. but what is Paul really arguing for?
1. the decimation and elimination of the public education system.
2. end Social Security
3. end Medicare
4. deregulate business
that’s “freedom”?
we deregulated Glass-Steagall… and here we are. That gave the top .01% the FREEDOM to take even more money from the system.
they are PRIVATIZING the schools at an incredible rate and studies clearly show the education kids get in these privatized schools is far inferior to that which they used to get public schools.
that’s not “freedom”, that’s feudalism.
“freedom” and “liberty” are buzz words that Paul uses to get you to support his neoliberal agenda.
come on man, you gotta wake up.
Yes, it’s freedom to end these programs. Why should I be forced to pay social security or medicare tax when I am conscientiously opposed to it? Tell you what, since you are so pro-tax, and there are more like you who don’t mind the government taking your money and then redistributing it to others, you can keep it. But give me the option to opt out if I want to.
Ayn Rand must be so proud of you.
“Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are [a] few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”
-Dwight Eisenhower
Typical–publicly shunning those who oppose is a convenient way to keep people quiet or to encourage group think (sheeple). So, If you value your freedom, if you don’t want to be forced to pay into a system you are opposed to, then you must be negligible and stupid.
Hey Eisenhower, you nitwit, do you realize that your statement would apply to all of our country’s founders?
I also think Paul is on the right track. (But I also think you do a fantastic job at covering the issues about which you have much knowledge, so please hear me out.)
Like I had briefly (and poorly) mentioned in my first ever reply to your blog – http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/ron-paul-claims-libertarians-would-repeal-civil-rights-act-of-1964/#comment-26451 – I just don’t think you fully understand this personal liberty and freedom thing well enough. Because if you did, I can’t see how you would be quibbling and fussing over these secondary issues.
The core issue – is that forcibly taking my personal property (money in this case) to the government is theft, plain and simple. And FORCE is the operable term here.
Because if I refuse (and I actually have before, briefly) and refuse long enough and strong enough, the government will actually murder me because of this choice. Local, state, or federal.
Take this hypothetical example:
Let’s say I don’t want to pay my property taxes (but the same principle could apply to income taxes) on my house that I “own” – meaning I have paid off my mortgage (which I really haven’t , but this is hypothetical).
Eventually the city will inform me that they now own my house (by some miracle), and I have to vacate. And if I tell them that they are full of shit because I have paid for my house fair and square and don’t owe anyone anything for my house, and that I am not leaving, then the local sheriff will show up.
The sheriff will tell me that if I don’t get out of my house, he will arrest me. And if I tell the sheriff that I am not leaving, he will probably call the local swat thug team to come bust down my door and drag me out.
And if I inform the thug team that I am armed and prepared to defend myself and my home, then they will most definitely shoot me dead that day.
This is not liberty or freedom. This is tyranny.
All the other arguments are secondary compared to this fundamental principle.
And I really don’t care how you or Hamilton or even Ron Paul interprets the Constitution regarding this issue. Because if the Constitution or even the original Articles of Confederation (which was scrapped b/c it did give the national government enough centralized power) does not provide for this, then we need a new government.
What the government (city, state, federal) then decides to do with the money that it steals from me (drop bombs on Arabs, study butterflies, listen to our phones & read our emails, give it to old people, give it to Israel, build a road or bridge, etc.) is not the core issue that needs to be debated.
The core issue is whether I am truly free or not.
We are not free. Our country has turned into what our founder’s fought so hard to free themselves from.
Until enough people get sick of this garbage it will continue. The problem is partially the feducation in this country. It has succeeded in effectively dumbing down our youth. In addition, with the hoards of foreigners that the government is BRINGING into the country (via H1b, H2b, and the Visa lottery), they have effectively diluted the population.
Ok.
Everything else is secondary to you not having to be forced by threat of law to pay taxes, because as you see it, that is core principle needed to be truly free.
property taxes.
hmmm
Now, I live in Florida, so I know how people can be taxed right out of their homes, unjustly. This is true.
However, I would rather pay a fair, affordable, reasonable tax on my property if I knew that tax was going to help the child across the street with a solid education and eventually a good job. Because when that happens, my community improves, my state improves, my nation improves… and I improve, and that child improves and in the end, when he is contributing to the community, he too will help to bring along the next generation which will also improve.
I would rather pay a reasonable tax than to know I have neighbors suffering needlessly simply because they can’t get medical help to get them over an unexpected injury.
I would rather pay a reasonable tax to ensure that resources are available to check the dairy plant down the road isn’t skimping on cleaning their equipment because someone decided they had the freedom to skate by health codes.
You see, to me, a few dollars does not determine the quality of what I call freedom just so long as those dollars being spent improve the quality of my life. And I am capable of understanding how in the long term, reasonably spent taxes can and have done that for all of us.
Now, as to the mention of the constitution and the original intent of such.
Fact is, Mr. Paul was deliberately misrepresenting the history of this country. He was claiming that the original intent was something other than it was, then he went on to claim it was a “liberal” court that ruled in ’34 as to that original intent.
Does this kind of deliberate deception bother you at all?
It should. It reminds me of a time when Ron Paul also claimed to support the Truth movement and then when he went on national television, he knifed us in the back. I only mention this because it establishes a distinct pattern of behavior for Mr. Paul, one that I would be very weary of, if I were you.
How can you look for freedom from a man who would purposefully mislead you so? Can you have real freedom like that? What is that “freedom” really going to look like when it is here?
Yes.
In my simple mind (I’m not a very smart guy), freedom means doing what you want (so long as it does not infringe on or impede anyone else’s freedom, personal property, etc.).
Or/likewise
Not having to do what someone else wants you to do, even though they may think it is for the “good of the people”, improves our “quality of life”, or “protects us from terrorism” or any such justification.
It’s a slippery slope, and eventually an all-out deception.
So, I live in Texas. I actually grew up in southeast Dallas and was educated in the Dallas ISD, K-12.
I also believe that a highly educated population is best. Not necessarily so that one can get a “good job”, but just for the sake of having a trained, critical intellect.
I also care about my injured or ailing neighbor who needs medical attention.
I also want safe and healthy food.
But I should still have a choice.
But none of these issues belongs in the function of government/State.
Because, ultimately, the State does not care about any of these things. The State cares only about its own existence, and increasing its power and control.
Two things are inevitable with monopolies – higher cost and lower quality.
And whatever area of society that the government is given monopoly over – education, medical care, food safety, police, money, etc. – the cost will increase and the quality will decrease.
But if anyone and everyone is free to provide education, medical care, milk and eggs, and any other wanted or needed product or service, WITHOUT government regulation and control, then these things will be provided.
And if the initial price point is too high, then lower cost options will sprout up to satisfy the demand where it exists.
I am probably the wrong guy to try to explain this thinking, but I’ll give you my own personal witness of an example of this:
I work in the business software industry that provides to big companies a sophisticated software product that enables their procurement departments to operate more efficiently, productively, profitably.
10 years ago this software was very expensive, and only the Fortune 500 could afford it and take advantage of it, and only a handful of companies offered it.
Now, as the industry has matured, there are multitudes of smaller software companies that have popped up to offer this same type of software to much smaller companies at much lower price points. Competition, demand, supply. Demand, supply, competition.
However, when the State starts legislating in favor of certain large companies, we get state-created monopolies, and everyone suffers. Because the costs go up and the quality goes down.
I believe we are in our current predicament because of State interference/control/favoritism, not the lack of it. We are now in a corporate fascist state.
I agree that the deficit is not primarily caused by SS or Medicare, but rather by the money-printing/currency inflating FED which funds wars and bailouts.
And I think Ron Paul would agree with you on that as well. Stop the military madness and we can do amazing things at home.
And Ron Paul may not be what he portends. I don’t know. But I hope he is.
Because I don’t know of any other Presidential candidate who wants to end the wars, close the overseas military bases, end the FED (which funds the wars), end the CIA, DEA, and FBI, and a lot of other draconian/corrupt/abusive/wasteful State entities.
When Ron Paul did not win the Republican nomination in 08, I actually favored Obama over McCain. Although I knew better – I knew that there was no material difference between Obama and McCain, and that both had been vetted by the controlling interests, I still held out for some glimmer of hope that Obama might, just might do some of the things he said. But alas…
So again, I don’t know. I know of no one else that even talks about stopping all the killing and plundering.
The Republicans are bat-shit-crazy blood-thirsty psychopaths, and the Democrats are intellectually-savvy blood-thirsty psychopaths. We need a third party, or we need another American revolution, 1776-style.
(Sorry this went so long. It’s late and my thoughts are getting mushy.)
Scott,
To follow-up, here is a good example of a bloated, illegitimate, out-of-control government agency — in this case the USDA – “regulating”, meddling, harassing and ultimately destroying the lives of the truly American Everyman:
http://biggovernment.com/bmccarty/2011/05/20/family-facing-4-million-in-fines-for-selling-bunnies/
Just like the local police no longer exist to “protect and serve”, but rather to harass, issues fines, and be a general nuisance to society in their current role of “law enforcement”…
And just like there is truly is no longer justice for all, but only “justice” for the rich and connected, whereas the poor are considered guilty with an almost impossible chance of proving themselves innocent…
The USDA and its tag-team terrorist duo the FDA care nothing about actually protecting anyone from anything. They only want to increase their power and control, for the sole purpose of being more powerful. Not to actually do any “Good” with that power.
And more than not they flex their muscles to strike down the small business, the little man, the American everyman to give an advantage to Big Agriculture or Big Pharma, by which they are both completely manipulated and controlled.
Our government is a Gun for hire. Those entities with big pockets decide how to use the Guns, and those with small pockets (or those who refuse to pay the bribe), get shot.
The nature of the murderous, destructive militarist machine (that you and I so loathe) that invades and plunders foreign countries, is the same nature of the militarist machine that will destroy our own homes and lives.
A violent murderous empire abroad will always come home to be a violent murderous empire at home.
Imho, the beginning of the end of our Republic started with the presidency of Woodrow Wilson and the creation of the Fed. He brought under country under fascism.
It only worsened under FDR. He was no hero and we need stop treating him as such. Can you say, communism?
“communism”? you gotta be kidding
Typical Libertarian “free market” bullshit. Amazing how much they talk about freedom, but only for the rich businessmen that they claim to hate. There is a reason people like David and Charles Koch fund Libertarian causes and groups like the Cato Institute, and it’s not because they want to make the world a better place for the little man on the totem poll. Libertarians call FDR a fascist, not realizing many Libertarian groups of those days supported and adored people like Mussolini and Hitler.
Modern libertarians were called the American Liberty League back in 1933-34. They are the fascists who tried to hire Smedley Butler to overthrow the country in an armed coup. Teri’s comments here make that connection even more clear to me.
Are you quoting what you call a transcript presented by Fox News? Willy, you did it again… you went and blew the whole thing out of proportion. I don’t even have to watch any interview to tell you that what Congressman Paul is saying is right and that you are wrong. Going by the Fox News (“how credible”) “transcript” you provided, it looks like Congressman Paul, said the right thing by saying that the “intent” of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are a good thing, which they are, but them being constitutional, perhaps not. Now, I am not saying that those things are a bad thing, in a lot of ways they are though. You have to be almost damn near perfect to get Medicare or Medicaid, in fact, I am not sure who actually qualifies for them, and for Social Security, man that is a complete farce. Who can live on $500 a month? These programs should be destroyed! We need a better system that works for everyone!
You also mislead, Willy. You said that Public Education is better than Private… haha… are you kidding me? Tell a public school teacher that and I bet you get laughed at, because you must be joking.
Willy, you tend to make a lot of mistakes. You read or watch only half of things and you misinterpret everything. Your paranoia only infects your readers, rather than enlightens them with truth. As if Congressman Paul is working covertly to help re-elect Obama, man that is tin foil hat crazy. Who then are you going to vote for, Obama?
For you to even quote Fox News makes you no better than they. You are now officially a Yellow Journalist in my eyes. In fact, you should go work for CNN. You’d be editor in a week. lol
Libertarians… Jesus… You know, if you wish to think you have a “right” to be a self-absorbed, greedy asshole with no social responsibility to the rest of your community, if you think that kind of greed elevates you somehow, then by all means, keep it to yourself.
Ron Paul is about 1. Free markets 2. unregulated business 3. privatizing everything 4. unrestricted flows of “hot money” and it’s pretty much the EXACT SAME agenda the NEOCONS, the IMF, the European Central Bank, and the Clinton’s NEW DEMS support.
It’s called neo-liberalism and just because they packaged it up with a kindly old man and called it “alternative” doesn’t make it anything more than pure unadulterated greed. It’s fascism, and you’re a fan. good job.
You are such a junkie for this guy you claim I have the gist of the interview wrong, without even having watched the interview. Why don’t you go read some Ayn Rand and tell yourself how special and enlightened you are. If you like I can provide you a link to one of her shifty-eyed interviews and you can really hero worship to your heart’s content.
Libertarians… Jesus… the American Liberty League.
“You are free.. to do as we tell you. You are free… to do as we tell you. You are free to do as we tell you”
Bill Hicks was the man.
Honestly I don’t see how the current existing system is any better than what you are railing about.
And it sounds like when you use phrases like “social responsibility” they are really just euphemisms for “taxes on everything” and “forced regulation/redistrubition.”
Now go read some Marx or something. ;P
guess your ‘tag’ name says ‘all’ about you…..
why don’t you go troll down a volcano… and active one.