More Bad Science Surrounding the “Nano-Thermite” Red Herring

by Scott Creighton

Another AE911Truth member has come out with what he claims is video evidence of the presence of  “nanothermite” in the demolition process of the World Trade Centers.  It is surprising that AE911Truth (an organization made up primarily of engineers and scientists)  would be promoting this video by David Chandler because it is an embarrassing collection of unsupported conclusions and really bad science.  It so obvious, anyone can pick it apart.  Unfortunately, I think that might be it’s purpose.

This “nanothermite” track that the Truth Movement has been on since the publication of the Harrit/Jones/Roberts paper has been increasingly dishonest since the very beginning and this is just another example of how “nanothermite” is blowing up our movement.

Which is, of course, the only thing this “super secret” pyrotechnic COULD blow up…

What they proposed in their paper was that they had found “active thermetic material” that utilized “nano technology” in the dust from the WTC demolitions.  In later discussions, they (Jones and Harrit at least) have estimated the presence of at least 10 tons of this unexploded material exists in the dust that was scattered around New York on Sept. 11th, 2001.

There has been a great deal of reasoned evaluation of the paper itself and the results of those evaluations have not been positive.

For the most part there is a a great deal of proof out there that the “red/grey chips” that Jones et al based their paper on, are in fact a rust inhibiting primer paint with a Kaolinite base.

“We can also say that because Kaolinite is present and that it is embedded in a Carbon based matrix with Rhomboidal Fe2O3 that a more likely explanation for the red material is paint.”  JREF

Now this twist has forced the Jones/Harrit/Roberts crew to slightly alter their story-line. Now they are suggesting that this primer paint that was used in the towers was actually the super-secret explosive nano-thermite and that the big plan was to run around spraying the underside of the floor systems with “explosive paint”.

This is completely ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as Jim Hoffman’s “1.8 million ceiling tile bombs” theory… (almost).  There is no way to control an even dispersal of paint on the underside of a floor system that is crowded with trusses, transverse trusses, cables, beams, and various other piping, AC ducts, ect… Without an even dispersal of the explosive, there is also no way of having a predictable outcome when it is ignited. Also, when paint is atomized to spray, fine particles of the dust dries and then falls in unexpected places.  This dust would also be explosive.  There is no way that the experts who designed the destruction of the Twin Towers would spray “explosive paint” on every single floor of the World Trade Center.  It’s ridiculous.

Now if you want a more scientific evaluation of just some of the problems with the Jones/Harrit/Roberts paper, try this for starters;

Jones investigates only the red and gray chips and not the entire sample. He has a limited sample size. The chips have a laminar nature which suggests a coating or adhesive but he rules out paint by comparing the effect of MEK on some unknown paint and comparing it to the effect on the red chips. This is either incompetence or scientific misconduct and fraud.
He sees that there is an organic fraction but does not analyze it. He uses DSC to measure exotherms but does it in a stream of air so he cannot tell the difference between a reaction and plain combustion of components but claims thermitic reaction. His EDAX shows silicon, aluminum, and oxygen in the same areas of the particle but he ignores this congruency; aluminosilicates are clays and are often fillers in paints and coatings. He does not extract a larger sample of the red and gray chips with a more agressive solvent, such as hot DMF or DMF-DMSO which would allow analysis of individual components.

His conclusion that this is a thermitic material is not justified based on the data.  JREF

Jones, Harrit, and Roberts have not submitted their paper, with samples, to independent labs for verification.  They have not completed the discovery process by scheduling a presentation of their findings to a group of qualified scientists and allowing for educated debate and evaluation of their findings in the public sphere.   Their paper was published in a journal that has questionable academic credentials, and was even cited as offering publication of a non-sense paper written by a computer.   Harrit himself has connections to one of the peer reviewers used by the publishing house, who has subsequently resigned as a peer reviewer from that house.  The editor in chief of the publishing house quit after she was told about the paper saying that the paper had no merit and shouldn’t have been published by her journal.  She also said that the paper was published without her knowledge and seems to have been published for purely “political reasons”.

Aside from all of these massive issues with the paper itself, there is also the question of integrity that cannot be dismissed.

In a recent interview with Russia Today, Harrit calls for an investigation into other explosive residues in the dust found at the World Trade Center.

We have not found remains or traces of conventional explosives. Actually, we’ve suggested and recommended to NIST, which is the National Institute of Standards and Technology, that they should look for remains or traces of explosives, and they have refused to do that every time. They have not investigated it.  Harrit

This is also recommended in their paper as well.

The trouble is, as they were writing the paper, I myself suggested they test for trace elements of conventional explosives in the dust at the World Trade Center.  Gregg Roberts of AE911Truth refused to do so.

However, our detractors could be counted on to do their best to use a negative result against us for P.R. purposes. They would say that we have a non-scientific belief, since a negative outcome from an experiment fails to shake it. Thus, the potential costs of doing what you’re proposing and coming up empty-handed, or worse, must be considered.” Roberts

The idea that Roberts would refuse to do a test for these materials that are commonly used in the demolition industry based purely on a “P.R.” standpoint sent chills down my spine.  Here is a “scientist” in a critically important investigation, refusing to do what should have been the very FIRST scientific test run on this material,  for no better reason than the results may reflect negatively on their “movement”?

What an amazing statement… BUT THEN, to actually include the statement in their paper that they think SOMEONE ELSE should run these very same tests that they REFUSED to run themselves, is an outrage and should send massive red-flags up around the entire 911 Truth Movement.

Later, in a email exchange with Jones himself, even more dishonesty

Then Jones even goes so far as to instruct Truth advocates as to what they should say and think about his new paper, going so far as to suggest any critique of his work is invalid unless published in a vanity press like his was.

Ever since this paper came out, the level of dishonesty coming from it’s creators  has been something remarkable to behold.

Now we have this terribly flawed video coming out from David Chandler, also associated with Gregg Roberts’ AE911Truth, which features the “nanothermite” theory as “proven fact”.

Chandler tries to suggest that the video he shows proves that nanothermite was used in the demolition in two ways; 1. white smoke coming from the debris 2. a piece of the falling debris changing course mid flight could ONLY be caused by nanothermite still attached to the piece exploded and caused the change in direction.

These assumptions of Chandlers are ridiculously flawed.

His conclusions are simply wrong.

White Smoke is present in the demolition of the towers, that much is correct. But Chandler goes on to say that this PROVES it was nano-thermite because when thermite burns, it produces a white smoke.  That much may be correct as far as the color of the smoke in a thermite reaction is concerned, but for him to omit the fact that OTHER explosive materials ALSO emit a white smoke upon detonation, is scientifically disingenuous.

Chandler also suggests that the trails being left by the pieces of debris falling to the ground, prove that the nanothermite is still buring on them.

Does that mean he thinks that super-secret “nanothermite” was used in the recent demolition of the building in China?

Nanothermite here too?

Nanothermite here too?

Here we have a very similar colored dust trails following the pieces at least part of the way to the ground.  There, of course, is no “nanothermite” burning on these pieces.  So his conclusion that the dust trails prove a burning nanothermite reaction is flawed at best.

The second piece of evidence from this video of his deals with a piece of material falling during the demo that appears at least to change direction during it’s fall.  This, Chandler states, can ONLY be explained by nanothermite exploding on the surface of that piece of debris and forcing it to change direction.

There are a hundred ways to explain the change in direction of this piece of material.  The two most obvious that I can think of would be that this piece of material is attached to another piece via some of the 1000s of miles of cables that were present in the Towers, and that cable was pulled taught between this piece of debris and another, and THAT forced it to change direction…

OR… the most obvious… another piece of debris hit this one mid-flight, and thus changed it’s trajectory.  In fact, if you look at the video, you can clearly see another streaming piece of debris right about this one travel downward and look as if it hit this one just as it changes directions.

So in fact, there are many other possible reasons why that piece of debris changed directions that make a lot more sense that some small bit of super secret nanothermite that just HAPPENED to wait to ignite while in mid-flight (one thing Chandler doesn’t explain is HOW this material ignited on the piece of falling debris. What exactly would be the ignition energy to cause that to happen?)

I hate to say it, but it looks to me like this is a desperation move put out by AE911Truth (Roberts) to try and offset the serious problems with the nanothermite theory being exposed by many different sources.

At every turn Jones, Harrit, and Roberts have been dishonest about this discovery of theirs.  When will they present their findings before an audience of qualified scientists and debate their proofs in an open forum?

At what point will they submit their findings and their samples to independent labs for confirmation of their results?

When will they produce a credible video of the “burning red/grey chips” that is really the foundation of their work?  When will they submit a sample of these chips so that others can perform similar tests to verify their results?

When will they run the tests they were asked to run, and they themselves suggest others perform?

This video evaluation by Chandler does nothing to advance the cause of 9/11 Truth.

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89 Responses

  1. I see that too! Something blew into it…. they crashed into each other.

  2. Willyloman, Are you going to address Friday’s Alex Jones show with “Chris”, AR15 gun rights activist??

  3. I didn’t know he had done a show with “Chris”… do you have a link?

  4. ah, nevermind, I found it on Youtube.

    While I am listening to it, ponder this…

    “Chris” again, doesn’t give his name.. he want’s his rights, but he won’t give his name? He goes to a rally with a gun strapped to him like a piece of a costume, but he won’t give his name?

    “Chris” used to be a member of the republican party, and now he is showing up at rallies with an AR-15 strapped to him… because he is mad about giving away free healthcare? Where was “Chris” and his gun when they were giving away free trillions to the bankers? Where was “Chris” and his gun when they were illegally invading other nations based on lies?

    It’s one thing to believe in the 2nd amendment, which I believe is our right as well… but it’s another to show up at a political rally with an AR-15… especially at one where the president is going to be. That’s just stupid. Or, it’s an attempt to frighten the opposition (terrorism) or… it’s some kind of pre-planned stunt for either publicity or propaganda…

    Oh yeah. On Weds. down here in Tampa, a cop was killed by a guy who was ex-military, ex-cop, and who also just happened to have in his possession, an AR-15….

  5. Ok, I tried to watch the whole thing, but I can’t stand AJ…

    when he started mocking people with that high pitched voice of his in the second video, that was pretty much it for me…

    AJ also seemed to hint that the MSM may “find something in Chris’ background and try to blow it out of proportion” … I wonder what that is going to be all about.

    Anyway, what I said, I still stand by. It was clearly staged. The gun was clearly strapped to his back and his pants leg. The weapon is the exact same type used by Phoenix Police tactical squad…

    Whether “Chris” was a dupe being used in this manner or he is an agent provocateur, is pretty much irrelevant. He may have the best intentions in the world and still be used. AJ’s interview gets us no closer to understanding what was behind this staged event.

    The fact that he shows up at a rally for healthcare with a gun strapped to his back isn’t going to “save the 2nd amendment”. I mean, that is just laughable.

    If anything, it has simply supplied the MSM with an example of why we should “CHANGE” the constitution.

  6. I appreciate your response willyloman. I didn’t listen to the whole show either. I got to the third video. But I’ll give it another shot and report to you any difference of opinion. Otherwise, your argument seems very reasonable. Thanks.

  7. Motivated by your courage to suffer through AJ’s ego and finish watching the video, I decided I would do the same.

    In the 5th video, at the 3:20 or so mark, “Chris” had this to say…

    “You’re only as free as you are willing to pull the trigger.”

    Right. Got it. Not only that, but he says that Ron Paul is the only honest politician… ever. Ever. Now if that isn’t blind hero worship, I don’t know what is.

    I don’t care about his politics. Really I don’t. The guy is young. He thinks he has figured something out. Good for him.

    But if he thinks that we are only free because someone somewhere has a gun, I don’t think he truly understands the nature of political struggle. And he certainly doesn’t understand the history. Of this country. Of many Latin American countries. Of Ghandi. MLK. Woman’s Sufferage Movement. Trade Union movement. Mandella’s struggle against Apartheid in South Africa.

    Sure, we have a right to own guns. We need to keep that right and use weapons when we have to. But we have to be smart about it and know when to use them and when running around at political rallies with them strapped on our backs is just a thinly veiled threat… either that, or a psyops trick to be used by the MSM to undermine the very rights he claims as the reason he was there in the first place.

  8. anybody ever scrape paint off steel?
    You can wire brush it off and the steel ,then it starts to rust, so you paint or primer before it rusts,
    to remove paint from steel and only leave 10 tons of chips in the dust is NOT a normal process!
    How do you get 10 tons of paint dust off falling steel and concrete?
    Why have no blast marks been found on the outside spandrells?

    • Boo

      Take a look at this. This is what a linear shaped charge did when someone used it to remove the flange from a steel I-Beam.

      picture

      I don’t see a lot of blast marks on this either. Pitting on the other parts of the beam I see. Pitting of steel is also mentioned in the FEMA report and the NIST reports both.

  9. Thanks again willyloman. All of AJ was difficult, and I’m recovering now. Your analysis holds up well. “Chris” is very suspicious.

  10. Scott,

    Is this an article that exhibits the problems you’re trying to warn us about?

    http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/article-8858-we-all-fall-down.html?current_page=1

    It apparently discusses Prof. Jones’ work.

    • In some ways, yes Steve. There were also some things brought up in the article that I found rather revealing as well. One thing is that people keep saying that Jones was fired or forced into retirement by BYU yet this article clearly shows that Jones was allowed to take an early retirement. He gets paid to continue his research and promotion of 9/11 truth issues (mainly the “thermite/nanothermite” theory) by the same university that is closely associated with Dick Cheney… and they even gave Cheney an honorary degree a little while ago. That’s just a little odd, don’t you think? If he was onto the “big secret” don’t you think at some time they would make things just a little harder for the man? Or at least a little less comfortable?

      I would also like to toss in there that the president of the university that still sends Jones checks as well as honored Cheney with and Honarary Doctorate in 2007, received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Bush in 2004.

      Then Bush met with the BYU president, Hinckley, again in 2006… a very cozy relationship between BYU and the Bush White House.

      Finally, on this topic. This is a quote from Hinckley in 2003. Now remember, Hinckley was the beloved president of BYU… buildings are named after him. I want you to try and understand how this statement from Hinckley juxtaposes with Steven Jones still getting checks from BYU while supposedly trying to prove Bush blew up the towers…

      “In April 2003, Hinckley gave a speech in which he addressed the ongoing war in Iraq. He said, “…as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally,” adding, “Furthermore, we are a freedom-loving people, committed to the defense of liberty wherever it is in jeopardy.” He also noted that “It may even be that [the Lord] will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression.” Hinckley, 2003

      Now I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like someone who would be all about writing Jones checks while he was looking for evidence to bring Bush and Cheney down…

      Just my opinion.

      In another part of the article they mention the fact that Jones’ homespun demenor drops pretty quickly when he is challenged on his research by other Truth activists. This I have seen for myself, but certainly not like the person quoted in the article.

      As far as his religion is concerned, I don’t really think that that was any kind of backhanded slur against him; it is Utah.

      Jones himself seems pleased with the article. The first time I read it, he had posted it on 9/11Bolgger and was reaping the praise from the echo chamber over there.

      All I could think of was it must just be more publicity for his new DVD he has for sale. Nothing says “reputable science” like “DVD for SALE”.

  11. will,

    So, you are saying there’s something fishy about the “thermite” or super powerful special explosive residues in the building dust? And, as I’ve read, I tyhink, you suspect this story covers up research that should be done on more likely explosives in the building dusts?

    I thought one had to come up with something more powerful than regular explosives in order to account for the way the building was pulverized which, according to the critics of the official story, could not have come down by just the fires and the impacts, but apparently, also without special preparations being made with explosives.

    Do I have the questions correct?

    • Steve;

      Yes. I think this entire “thermite, thermate, super-thermite, nanothermite” track we have been led down was always just a distraction. From the very beginning.

      If you are going to conduct an investigation, official or otherwise, of a suspected controlled demolition, the very FIRST thing you should test for is the presence of the high explosive residues that are commonly used in the industry.

      Not only did FEMA, NIST, RJ LEE, and the 9/11 Commission fail to do that simple test… so did our glorious leader, Steven Jones. Not only did he not test for it (after suggesting someone else should) but he and his fellow “researchers” REFUSED to do so.

      Why the hell is that?

      The “iron rich spheres” that Jones has been theorizing since day one to be “thermite” residue, is in fact, the missing trusses and floor pans of the Trade Centers. “Iron rich” is just a way of saying that they were predominately made of Iron… well, the trusses were made of High Strength Low Allow steel which is mainly “iron” with carbon, sulfur, silicon, and other materials mixed in.

      all of these materials were listed in various reports on the “iron rich spheres” by RJ Lee and Jones, among others.

      they have mistakenly or fraudulently been reporting (I made the same mistake up until recently) that the trusses were A-36 steel and that the columns were the same. The presence of the additional elements like silicon and especially sulfer have thrown the Truth movement off for years. But the fact is, the HSLA steel has these elements in it so of course they would show up in Jones’ investigation.

      The “iron rich spheres” are the HSLA steel trusses that are missing from the Ground Zero photos, not proof of “thermite” or “thermate” or “super thermite” or “nanothermite”… that has always been either a planned distraction or a horrible mistake to be made for years by credible scientists…

      I don’t think they could have made that mistake.

      The simple tests to detect explosive residues in the dust would tell us what they used to bring them down, and would, by law, force a new criminal investigation.

      • All the dust has been tested and analyzed for reasons related to the Zadroga bill…. and testing for explosives by all these organizations before then wasn’t done because, you know, the building was hit by a plane…

        I don’t know who Steven Jones or his “researchers” are, but he probably refused to test because he knew the whole “demolition charges” theory is total BS and was afraid he’d just prove that fact.

        By the way, did you even know that the WTC routinely had bomb sniffing dogs brought in because of the previous terrorist attack in 1993? Did you know that it most likely take over 10,000 demolition charges to bring down just one of the towers for a controlled demolition, and that would take several months and several trucks full of bombs going through multiple sets of security and passed the 100,000 or so people that frequented the WTC everyday without any one of them noticing? Did you not notice that in the several months leading to the attack (in which these supposed demolition charges would be planted) that not one bomb sniffing dog noticed them?

        Do you realize how ridiculous this whole argument that 9/11 was some kind of inside job sounds? Seriously? Have you thought about that aspect? The ridiculousness? Really… have you?

        • The JL Hudson building was demoed just a little while prior to 9/11. At the time it was the world record for tallest building and most floor space of any demolition at the time.

          It’s floor space was nearly exactly the same as the floor space in one Twin Tower. According to a CDI report on the demolition, it took just under one ton of explosives and about two weeks to rig with one of their standard crews.

          Extrapolate the numbers (2 to 1) and you come up with realistic numbers for explosives needed and time for the crews to rig the demolition.

          I imagine that they would have needed a bit more det cord on the Twin Towers because they weren’t trying to keep the dust to a minimum, in fact they wanted to pulverize the floor systems as much as possible, so they probably used more det cord. Cutter charges would have been easier and faster to set because the JL Hudson building was multifaceted with several different levels and areas. The Towers were straight shots down the interior of the core section of the building. Much faster to rig.

          These are facts. These are based on real world understanding of the demolition process and the history of the demolition business. If you wish to simply throw out unsubstantiated assessments of materials needed and the time needed to rig such a project, and call that an argument, you go right ahead. But we deal with the real world here.

          • Hmm, actually the JL Hudson building had about 2.2 million sq ft of office and retail space. ONE tower had about 3.8 million sq ft of office space… I guess that 1.6 million extra sq feet hardly makes a difference or the fact that they would have to set explosives in two buildings. Also the JL Hudson building took 24 days (more than two weeks, but hey, hardly makes a difference, right?) just to set the explosives, not counting the 3 months to investigate and then 4 months to prep the building.

            Oh, and the fact that the JL Hudson building was completely deserted except for the demolition team; while the towers had over 50,000 people there each day that some magic demolition team would have to work around and hide their progress from every day. (I’m sure that would have no factor whatsoever on their rigging timeframe…)

            And you believe not one person of these 10s of thousands of people noticed anyone carrying explosives in, or cleaning and maintenance crews doing normal maintenance noticed anything changed? No one noticed trucks full of explosives and crews carrying them in, night security guards and cleaning crews not noticing all the new people there? Not one of them saying something about these going ons after the attack, since you know, those people survived because they didn’t work at the hours the attacks took place or managed to escape? Wow.

            So how many people were involved in rigging this again? And they went completely unnoticed before the attack and no one remembered them after it either? Not one of them had second thoughts, or blew the whistle afterward? None of them blurted out what they had done drunk at a bar, or confessed it in a church? None of their family members noticed they got a job they didn’t talk about at the WTC a short while before the attack and they suddenly came into a veritable fuck ton of mysteriously gained money? Not one jealous family member or friend said anything? These guys that rigged it just vanished from the face of the earth afterward? And somehow they had never met anyone else in their entire life that would notice them disappear? None of this sounds far fetched at all…

            And you say you deal with the real world here? Are you sure on that statement? You say lines like “I imagine that they would have needed a bit more det cord on the Twin Towers because they weren’t trying to keep the dust to a minimum, in fact they wanted to pulverize the floor systems as much as possible, so they probably used more det cord.” and then you say this complete speculation is a fact. Are you sure you know what facts are?

          • Actually, the Twin Towers, Towers 1 and 2 of the WTC, had a combined 4,300,000 square feet. Reference is here…

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center

            Which is roughly the same as my own assessment based on my scale drawings of the buildings which you can easily find.

            JL Hudson building was 2.2 million which works out almost perfectly to what I said in the first place (2 to 1 ratio) and it does make a difference.

            The install time of the demolition charges is a variable dependent on the number of workers they used. So 24 days on one project could be 12 days on a project of similar size simply based on the fact that they have twice as many workers setting the charges.

            That doesn’t take a genius to figure out, does it.

            As far as the prep time for the building, that doesn’t factor in at all because OBVIOUSLY they didn’t knock out the walls and remove all the furniture IF THEY WERE TRYING TO KEEP THE DEMOLITION A SECRET. So that prep time does not factor in AT ALL.

            Am I insulting you? Am I calling you names? No. That is what you do. I don’t need to.

            When you can reply to my questions about how concrete melted and steel melted from fires that could only have gotten as hot as burning jet fuel (1500 degs or so) then we can have a rational discussion about this. Until then, you are just tossing out strawmen arguments and clutching at straws.

            There was a vast amount of heat energy released in an extremely short period of time. Nothing in the official story of 9/11 can explain that. The sources that I provided you were from the History Channel and the 9/11 Museum in New York… hardly what you would call whacked out conspiracy theory sites.

          • Uh, I replied to the concrete melting thing in one of my posts below already…

            But the 4,300,000 reference in that very article has a citation near it asking for clarification. That very same article states this: “Each floor of the towers had 40,000 square feet (3,700 m2) of space for occupancy.[22] Each tower had 3,800,000 square feet (353,000 m2) of office space. Altogether the entire complex of seven buildings had 11,200,000 square feet (1,040,000 m2) of space.” The same article states: “The complex was located in the heart of New York City’s downtown financial district and contained 13.4 million square feet (1.24 million m2) of office space.” All of that from the same article, and not consistent with itself. In comparison however, the Empire State Building, which is smaller than the individual towers were, is stated to have 2,768,591 sq ft of floor area…

            Moving on, if they were trying to keep the demolition a secret, would it not take longer for them to do it when there are tons of people watching them? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if you are keeping an operation a secret with thousands of potential witnesses around you, the prep time to do your task would be significantly increased as opposed to being able to do that same task in an empty building without having to hide the fact that you are doing that task…

            And if they are not knocking out walls to hide the demolitions, where are they putting them again? I mean, for a controlled demolition that is NOT hiding the fact that they are demolishing they have to remove walls and cut into places to place explosives… but with a secret demolition they don’t have to… for what reason again? Not even to hide them?

            Also, the human factor portions of my statements were completely ignored. How many people were planting the bombs again? More than 24 apparently. How many people were involved in the planning of just this portion of the plan? In a response by another poster apparently SECURECOM security dog handlers were apparently involved as they were of course purposefully ignoring the bomb warnings, meaning they were in on it. How many dog handlers were there? How many people in the planning stages had to brief and ensure the loyalty of just the dog handlers then?

            Was SECURECOM the mastermind behind the whole conspiracy? If not, then how many people were involved in the planning stages to delegate portions of the overall conspiracy to SECURECOM? Every time you add in a group of people you end up having to bring in more… any chance you can break down the conspirator hierarchy for me?

            What I’m saying is, not one person before or after the attack came forward about it? None had second thoughts? No one noticed them? What was their personal motivation that would make them so loyal to this cause? Was it money? None of their family members noticed they suddenly got a shit ton of it?

            This is a lot of individuals (you do know that groups of people are made up of individuals, all with different motivations and personal beliefs and not just a hive mind, right?) to be so motivated to killing fellow citizens of the same country they live in. You can’t have a Governor hire a prostitute or a Senator trying to elicit gay sex in an airport bathroom without it leaking out , and yet all these people involved, not a single bit of information? Really? How is that even possible?

            • chief electrical design engineer for wtc for forty years, richard humenn, states that all one would need is access to the elevator shafts. they were completely sealed off from the rest of the building so no one would have noticed. commandeer one elevator and do what you need to do. from the shaft all of the core columns were exposed. remember the floors of the wtc cantilevered out from the core to the outside shell. this means there would be no need to go thru ceilings or walls to lay the wire. there really was no support beyond the core until you got to the shell. there are also many accounts of tenants in the building talking about power downs in the building for weeks prior to 9/11. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that a power down would also mean all security systems would be offline. and dismissing the dog patrol from duty is what they did. it wasn’t a matter of the dogs ignoring things. there were no dogs five days prior to 9/11.

              you’re right to question motives. i mean any detective or prosecuting attorney will tell you it is essential to solving crimes. means, motive and opportunity. if you think about it; as rich as osama bin laudin was and even tho we know he wasn’t involved, sadham hussein’s power as a dictator neither of them had the means to orchestrate 9/11 like the president and vice president did. it’s the difference between bill gates and a lotto winner.

              as for motive… bin laudin needed regular dialysis which he’d have done at an american hospital in dubai. bin laudin wanted u.s. military bases out of saudi arabia and iraq. i doesn’t really make sense for him carry out 9/11 and in fact he denied it was him. considering the dastardly deeds he did and claimed he did, he wanted nothing to do with 9/11. hussien got lynched. i’m sure he saw that coming. not a great motivator.

              larry silverstein invested about 15 million dollars of his own money and borrowed another 35 million to secure the world trade center lease and negotiate insurance policies after vornado backed out of the deal. in less than a year that initial investment paid out in the sum of seven billion dollars. that’s about a 500% return on investment. bush, from a major oil family, gained control of probably the biggest untapped puddles of oil in the world as well as control over the country that a pipeline could be laid to feed oil to the economies of russia, india and china without having to put it in barrels or on a ship. vice president cheney, former ceo of halliburton saw that company receive a 2.5 billion contract called free iraqi oil. so osama and sadham’s motives could only be the glory because they both knew they’d be pursued to the end. silverstein, pres and veep were looking to gain billions.

              according to ex-cia operative susan lindauer, she was informed by fellow agents that for weeks prior to 9/11 unmarked vans would arrive at wtc in the early morning hours after the janitorial staff left. supposedly unknown cargo was unloaded from these vans. the opportunity makes a lot more sense and is a lot easier from within than from without.

              are you really serious about anyone who may have been involved unwittingly would feel no fear in being a whistle blower? really? first off the guilt would most likely make them deny that it was possible and secondly the people they’d be going up against would be the most powerful people in the world. i don’t think it would be too hard to keep most people unaware of the intended outcome of their actions. that need to know policy works wonders in the covert world. neither would it be hard keeping everyone knowingly involved, whether it was dozens or hundreds, quiet. not hard at all.

        • Those security dogs were used by the security company, SECURECOM, the same company who replaced or upgraded the cable in the Twin Towers about a month before 9/11. Cables that look like det-cord and if they ran it in the ceilings in the spaces created for cables…. then a dog wouldn’t smell det-cord anyway, especially if the dog handlers ignored any warnings the dogs might of given.

          • Wow, that is a shit ton of corrupt people. How many people were involved in this conspiracy again? Seems like every time someone makes an argument against something that number just gets bigger to throw more people in to counter act the argument…

        • Here’s one for you…

          explain how 24″ x 6″ thick structural steel beams melted and bent without fracturing, without cracking, without breaking. It melts at 2750 deg F… jet fuel burns at only 1500 deg F and office fires burn at 600+ deg F. In fact, in the paint tests run by NIST, they found evidence of fires affecting steel only at temperatures of 625+ deg F and no more. Surely not enough to melt steel. Yet the steel was still melted (read the RJ Lee report)

          explain the molten concrete which melted around guns and steel. It melts at a temperature of around 3200 deg F. How is that possible if the hottest it could have gotten, according to the official story, is the temperature of jet fuel (1500 deg)?

          These are facts. I don’t deal in conjecture and speculation like you do. These are facts. How did that massive beam reach a temperature hot enough to cause that perfect bend in Less Than 12 seconds (time of the collapse)?

          PETN, the standard high explosive in det cord, burns at a temperature of greater than 8,000 deg F. That could be one answer. But “jet fuel” clearly isn’t.

          • So… a material can’t bend from any other factors other than reaching its melting point? Is that how physics and chemistry work now? So the 100s of tons of building pressing down on heated metal (you do know that metal can weaken at high temperatures without reaching its complete melting point… right?) doesn’t have any impact or stress on already damaged beams? Or that if some of the support structure is gone and a beam is now slightly bent and heated up that beam won’t be able to hold nearly as much weight as what it was able to before…

            I mean, the critical temperature of structural steel (where it is at only 60% or less than its normal yield strength) made in America is approximately 1000-1300 deg F; the temperature required for it to weaken to this point only gets lower the longer the material is being heated too. Even 600 deg F continuously burning could cause it to weaken significantly. Hey, isn’t 1300 deg F less than 1500 deg F?

            Or how about the fact that you don’t know how melting works to begin with. Rocks, and composites (such as concrete) are made up of several substances, all of which have different melting points. All it would take is for a portion of the overall structure to reach a phase transition and cause a partial melt, which would cause the overall structure of the concrete to begin flowing. Most concrete will reach this point between 900 and 1100 deg F… that’s still below 1500 deg F, right?

            None of this is even taking into account the fact that if the heat is sealed and creating a “mircoclimate”, causing pressure to continue to rise, this will in turn cause the temperature to continue to rise and exceed normal expectations.

            It’s almost like most of your argument is based on the fact that huge aspects of science and physics are largely ignored and your basing your conspiracy BS on how you THINK things should work in the real world, and not on how they actually do work.

            Once again, you throw out tons of speculation and call them facts, but at the same time you’re asking how so and so could be possible while not understanding or even being aware of all the many, many factors involved, and yet through your lack of understanding you somehow do a huge leap over to it only being explainable through explosives and wild bullshit theories. It’s really quite amazing.

            • the material called steel really doesn’t bend from any other possible natural factors other than being heated to very high temperatures. that is how physics and chemistry work now and how they have always worked. this is why things like skyscrapers and bridges are built from steel. the impact or stress needed to bend cold hard steel would be truly astronomical, meaning something like a meteor or a possible terrestrial culprit might be a tsunami, which is basically the force of the entire ocean. certainly the top ten percent of the towers above the impact could never deform the ninety percent of undamaged steel columns below. that would be like putting a twenty pound bag of flour on your head and it crushing you down into a puddle of goo in under ten seconds. maybe in cartoons but not in real life.

            • What brought the towers down then? Since they were designed to withstand the impact of a 707…

        • Jessie, why don’t you do your self a favor and read Willy’s articles about 9/11 … look at the side bar on your left….. see 001 9/11 writings and 002 scott’s 9/11 writings ? Click on them and pull up enough information to keep your little mind busy reading for a few days….
          quit babbling about silly nonsense that relates only to your trying to take up space and time with your air-bubble comments.

          • So in other words: Someone has a differing view than yours with information to back it up, so instead of having any kind of counter-argument or explanation, you just want me to go away so you can stick your head back in the sand? Nice.

            I mean, did you even read anything that I wrote? Did you even notice that it was a direct response to a question presented to me, and that I answered it? How is that babbling nonsense?

            Here’s why: because it doesn’t fit with your theory, and your theory is more important to you than facts or reality. You’ve gobbled up some conspiracy nonsense and now are so invested in it that anything anyone says to the contrary, even if it gives a valid alternate explanation, is just silly nonsense that takes up space to you.

            Do you think “Willy” and “Scott’s” articles are somehow some kind of absolute, infallible truth or something? Have you never questioned the validity of its content? Honestly, I doubt you have the reading comprehension skills for it to matter anyway.

  12. will,

    I assumed that whoever was investigating the residues of the Towers with the idea that they might have been brought down by explosives would have, as a matter of course, looked for all the common explosive residues in addition to more exotic ones.

    You are telling me that Prof. Jones and members of whatever team he has on this not only didn’t look for likely culprits, but refuses to do so.

    In addition to this, you are telling me that the official 9-11 commission did not, and I assume refuses to, check for common explosive residues also.

    If this is true then they are bunglers, and more than that.

    I have thought one of the crimes of the Bush administration was to treat the 9-11 murders as an act of war instead of as a crime, and refused to treat the murders as a crime to be investigated as a crime according to the procedures followed by detectives, and so on. It was a crime for this very reason, that evidence can be made to disappear and be ignored.

    It was the subsequent cleaning up of the crime scene that argues to me hit cover-up.

    I appreciate your work on this issue.

  13. I’m with you willy … I’ve always found it incredibly odd that out of all the people in the world an ultra conservative republican mormon from Cheney’s favorite university was the one who ended up being the spoksperson for this line of research ….

    I also found all the foot dragging he does odd to … The very first thing a detective does at a shooting is test everyone present for gun shot residue … Here we have a suspected explosion and … no tests for explosive residue!?? … A few common chemicals and a swab and we would all have our answer in a second would’t we? … Now eight years later and he asks Nist to do it?? … Knowing full well they won’t … That is fishy … Good call my friend ….

  14. One thing that seems to have eluded the proponents of the super secretive nano thermite theory is the simple fact that, If you want a something to definitely happen, you use tried and tested techniques to ensure that it DOES happen.

    So we are being led to believe that the government wanted the Twin towers and building 7 to completely be demolished and then used a brand new untested technique!
    Come on nano thermite proponates, you spout a lot of science but not much common sense.

    The US governmemt thought lets use the Twin Towers as a guinea bigs to test out how well Nano Thermite actually performs on buildings……yeah right!!!

    • Good point, KL. I said something very similar to Prof. Jones about a year and a half ago on my 9/11 Blogger post, “An open letter to Steven Jones on the Subject of Det Cord”… you can Google it with 911Blogger and it should come up. No controlled demolition expert would attempt something like this with experimental or even just secret military grade explosives. It would not happen.

    • Do some real reading and research instead of just babbling and moving your jaw bone. Nano-thermite technology is far from being a “new and untested technology” at the time of the 9-11 explosions of Towers I and II and WTC Building 7. It is a “US Military Weapons Grade Product, exclusively manufactured by as few as two or three facilities under US-Patent No. 5.505.799 / Nano-engineered Explosive; and US-Patent No. 4.464.989 / Integral Low-Energy Thermite Igniter.

      No cables, drilling or tons of explosives necessary. Both patents give answers to a lot of questions, regarding the use of Nano-Thermite on 9/11.

      • Sorry but that is retarded. The patent that everyone shows a link to is that of a “thermite match” which ignites HIGH EXPLOSIVES. So yes, you still would have needed det cord you still would have needed high explosives. Even Jones himself says that the thermite was “probably” used only to ignite the high explosives since it’s a low explosive and can’t create a demolition wave the likes of which is needed for demolition.

  15. Man o man I can’t fathom why anyone puts snap on their site.

  16. you idiot, you can’t use a JREF forum as a source!

  17. typically I wouldn’t use JREF as a source, but in this case, they are correct and it is hard to get someone from 911Blogger to point out this discrepency. But apparently Jones and Harrit both address this issue (the red/grey chips being some kind of paint), so THEY considered the JREF input worthy of at least SOME consideration, so, so do I.

  18. Nanothermite can’t be that hard to detect… I’m sure it has a pretty long shelf life given its purpose…

    It should still therefore be present in NYC… and since it is a military explosive… and there have been no wars in recent decades that included attacks on New York… well if any nanothermite is found in NYC… then that’s proof enough it was used there!… if the samples get stronger along the debris cloud route… you can then only assume that the buildings were demolished deliberately!

    So… has anyone done this? found out WHERE, in what quantities any traces of nanothermite was found?

    Otherwise it is basically hypothesis based on scant evidence…

    The funny thing is…as I said… you could prove or disprove this hypothesisi for about 300 bucks with samples from NYC!

  19. What a load of shit. Steel buildings don’t turn into powder and fall at free fall speed because of fire. And you’ll still be a lying coward when you wake up tomorrow.

  20. Did anyone ever consider that “the government” might also be constituted of treacherous and treasonous Muslim infiltrators who had access to the nano-thermite? After all the military obviously has placed way too much trust in the Muslims in the military. Under Bush when Ft. Hood killer Major Hasan ==who gave his powerpoint presentation that included explaining to the others in his class why a Muslim in his position couldn’t fight alongside them = he was promoted instead of being let go!!!!

  21. I hate these debunking websites and blogs.
    The people who write this crap to try and defend precious America and to show their patriocity are as thick as two short planks.
    You guys have an answer for everything relating to the evidence around topics such as thermite, squibs, the pancake collapse, the 4 airlines etc etc. How long did you sit around thinking up what to write to deflect the truth. Anyone with minor physics knowledge knows buildings don’t explode to the ground in ash because of a minor puncture hole in the side and 50 minutes of black smoke (and virtually no continuous concentrated burning fires of less than 800 degrees).
    Tests on what you call undercoat paint has already been carried out – they tried to disolve it in paint stripper and it had no affect. Its not paint!
    And even if it was thermite paint how does one charge it to ignition point? If the whole building was painted in the stuff the whole building would have caught fire instantly. No, these were accurately placed strap-on charges to beams and columns all the way down the building, and bombs in the basement so the rubble has somewhere to end up. Hell, white smoke was rising up from ground level before the towers began to collapse. A large explosion was heard and taped 2 seconds before the demolition wave started to fall (note my word demolition, thats what it was folks).
    Aircraft fuel is not capable of turning steel into liquid flowing molten lava as found at ground zero for weeks after. The fireman were pouring water down there constantly to the point the firefighters said it was like a lake down their. Thermite reaction can keep steel molten even underwater because it creates its own oxygen source. Its burns just as well underwater.
    Then you guys try and give your rediculous theory on what the squibs were trying to brainwash the average ignorant American (no offense to the smart ones). The WTC office spaces were huge, they had no dividing walls. So what happens when pulvorised building materials forces its way down elevator shafts and bursts through doors and comes into large open plan office spaces? It should fill the space uniformally, and if the pressure is great enough burst many windows at a time, but the squibs we all can see some 20 or more floors below the demolition wave were localized, pin-point accurate, violent ejections of pulvorised building matierals being forced out horizontally at over 50mph. Steel beams flying across the sky horizontally and wedging themselves deep into neighbouring buildings. Steel does not react in this manner without some incredible force driving it.
    What we saw on 9/11 was the buildings exploding outwards into pyroclastic clouds very similar to a volcano going off. Incredible heat is needed to drive such huge plumes of dust clouds all across NY and over the river, much more heat that the pathetic fires in the WTC towers.
    Think about this: If steel frame skycrapers could fall again due to fire what insurance company would want to insure them?
    (Sorry about the typo’s, I was typing fast)

    • Could you also apologize for being an idiot? Thanks. Anybody that believes in this 9/11 conspiracy BS is an idiot. Anybody that believes having a passenger plane slam into a building as only being a “minor puncture hole” is an idiot. People that believe explosives were set in a building that had thousands of employees going in and out of there every day at all hours of the day including night shifts without anyone noticing when it takes several months of demolition workers working 8+ hour shifts every day to set explosives in an abandoned building are idiots.

      “Steel does not react in this manner without some incredible force driving it.” -Yeah, I guess having hundreds of tons of building pressing down on top of it just isn’t much force.

      You have several of these kinds of statements of “this doesn’t work this way” or “that doesn’t work that way.” You ever think maybe you’re wrong? Maybe you have no idea what your talking about? That you have some idea in your head of how things should work, but that reality just doesn’t work that way and doesn’t bend to your preconceived notions? Maybe reality is just seems too unrealistic for you.

      This whole conspiracy BS really falls down to people believing they are smarter than they are, possibly even being fairly intelligent, and then buying into some that’s stupid for stupid reasons but believing they are too smart to fall for some line of BS. Then after getting emotionally invested in that belief, try to start defending a stupid position with smart arguments.

      • “This whole conspiracy BS really falls down to people believing they are smarter than they are, possibly even being fairly intelligent, and then buying into some that’s stupid for stupid reasons but believing they are too smart to fall for some line of BS. Then after getting emotionally invested in that belief, try to start defending a stupid position with smart arguments.”

        This is a classic case of projection. Just replace “conspiracy BS” with “official story BS” and it works. People are emotionally invested in the “official story” . Most 9/11 activists initially believed the official story but facts and rationality overtook emotion at some point. Its the “debunkers” who spend hours daily trolling for online fights with 9/11 activists who seem the most emotionally invested.

        • What facts and rationality? Please explain, because in all the arguments I’ve seen so far, there has been none of that from any of the conspiracy crazies. The arguments they present are so far fetched and ludicrous while ignoring so many facts its mind boggling.

          It really boils down to people wanting so bad to be in a world where they can be the unsung heroes of it while not actually having to do any kind of work to be one. The motive is to make themselves important; all the people that believe the official story (you know, reality) are mindless sheep, or bloodthirsty monsters in on some grand conspiracy; while they are the ones who see the light, and elevate themselves to a level the real world will never elevate them to.

          I mean, if everyone else is an ignorant sheep or a bloodthirsty conspirator, all they have to do to feel superior is roll out of bed. Kudos on that life plan, friend!

          • More projections from Mr. Superiority Complex himself-“Jessiahtherational”. Even your name screams ego.

            Look at all your comments here. Emotionally invested much? Why do you feel the need to “take on” 9/11 activists so hard? Does the corporate media really need your help? No, but you obviously get something out of this. Emotionally invested. I guess you’re the “hero” taking out those dastardly anti-American,Jihadist-helping 9/11 activists right little guy? Just doing your civic duty?

          • Ha ha, I like the argument that if anyone criticizes you, or some one else that you agree with it’s just automatically regulated to projection with you. That must be an awesome world to live in where if anyone brings up any issue they might have with you or someone else whose opinion you agree with, that there’s no way the point or criticism they make might actually have validity, they’re just projecting their own issues on to you! Everybody else is terrible but you and your friends, you’re perfect! No ego at all…

            Anyway, the thing I get out of this is a debate. Simple as that. I don’t live in a world where every argument that is made someone has to elevate their position to believing it is the work of a hero for it to be a worthwhile thing to pursue. I want to understand how people came to these conclusions they came to. I want to understand how they side step all the holes in their theories while simultaneously ignoring the fact that they are doing so. I want to understand how people can believe in something so hard while purposefully overlooking the giant holes in the sheer practicality of what they want to believe happened, the giant leaps of logic they have to make to reach these conclusions and so adamantly defend them. But when all is said and done, it’s just a debate to me.

            I don’t think anyone here is “anti-American Jihadist helping”, or is even dastardly at all. Mostly just lacking logic and rationality. I mean, you keep bringing up the corporate media and them “pushing the official story.” Is the entire media in on the plot too? How many people are in on it? Do you realize how irrational that is? It’s basically creating a world where it’s not some group that is in on this plot, but where pretty much EVERYONE is, except for the 9/11 activists. That’s what I want explained, to understand how it can be believed, and that’s really only going to happen if the people that believe it tell me.

  22. In case you didn’t notice, this is a Truth advocacy site, not a “debunking” site.

    nanothermite is a red herring Peter…

    • So… if it turned out you were wrong (you are) about the buildings collapsing from anything more than the structural damage caused by the planes flying into them, would you take down your site since that would make it completely obsolete?

      • In case you can’t read, this site is about many things. Globalization, neoliberalism, the Washington Consensus, and others. 9/11 is one thing that we address here.

        When it turns out that sites like this one are correct about 9/11 (we are) do you think that every other news site should shut down their websites because they are then “completely obsolete”?

        • I will admit and apologize that I didn’t really look into many of the other aspects of your site, so I guess if you ever join reality and realize that you are not right about 9/11 (you’re really, really not, not at all), then only your 9/11 conspiracy discussion portions would be obsolete, not that they aren’t already since they are pretty much just false information, but you get the idea.

  23. Harritt, Jones, Gage, and everyone else in the Truth Movement know and admit that they do not have all the answers. Nano-thermite is not a red herring, it is merely one piece of the puzzle that has been uncovered through scientific investigation. Gates, Harritt, Jones etc.readily admit that other explosives most likely have been used in conjunction with the thermite. The perpetrators obviously were taking no chances that the buildings would not come down completely this time. Who knows what other exotic elements were used, including micro nukes, experimental directed energy devices, or some of those “Unknown unknowns” Rumsfeld was famous for speaking about. If you are truly searching for truth, don’t knock the folks who have found some of it. Remember, the only people who know the whole story on this are those few who were at the very pinnacle of this top down pyramidically shaped conspiracy. It is very possible that we will not know all of the facts for generations to come. In the meantime, to disparage the work of researchers who have found incontrovertible proof of the existence of the nano-thermite in the WTC dust, is highly suspicious, to say the least. When you have all the answers, then speak up again. In the meantime, quit making an ass out of yourself, for posterity’s sake. I truly can’t believe that your blog here is near the top of the list when “Nano-Thermite” is GOOGLED. It should be at the bottom, because the relevance of it is miniscule.

  24. It would be great if Scott and willowman could disprove the following also:

    1,411 verified Architectural and Engineering Professionals at Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth.

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    and Fire Fighters who worked at the Trade Towers that day of Firefighters for 911 Truth.

    http://firefightersfor911truth.org/

    and also of course over 300 Verified Pilots and Aviation Professionals at Pilots for 911 Truth.

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/index.html

    If you prefer video than reading, than this provides a clear and concise breakdown of actual evidence surrounding the events of September 11.

    Finally, David Ray Griffin, as he uses only evidence to disproves the startling little evidence supplied by the “Official Story”. And also use documented and scientific fact to prove the correct events of that day.

    http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060405112622982

    The evidence supplied by all these Professionals is overwhelming. I find it hard to grasp that some people will still try to argue in favour of an Administration that killed over 3,000 of its own people. Do you not feel that if you were killed on that day all you would want is for people to actually do some solid research. The answers are easy to find.

  25. you seem to misunderstand my point. I am a Truth Advocate and much of this site is dedicated to some of the very issues you bring up. To that end, I am calling into question the very questionable “nanothermite” distraction created by Jones and BYU which has done nothing to help our cause.

  26. And I suppose Building 7 never hit by a plane came down is 7 seconds (penthouse first) was due to small fires…Why Don’t You Just “Pull It”

  27. it was actually brought down in an explosive controlled demolition actually. done with conventional high explosives like those used in the controlled demolition industry. the same explosives that NIST, FEMA, and USGS did not test for.

    • Those explosives weren’t tested for because the towers were quite obviously hit by a plane and then collapsed from the the damage caused by it. There was quite obviously no explosive controlled demolition involved, and the remains of the debris has been tested and analyzed (for rational reasons, to find carcinogens to help the first responders get cancer treatment for the Zadroga bill).

      Since all of the information on what the debris contained is there, if there was any explosive residue there, you’d be able to just see if it was from that analysis. (There is not any.)

      • The testing process is basically a version of a Greiss Reagent test. The high explosive residues don’t just show up on any old test like those for carinogens.

        And no, neither NIST, or FEMA, or the 9/11 Commission has ever tested for traces of high explosive residue on any 9/11 related evidence or dust from Ground Zero.

  28. “The FBI COINTELPRO program was initiated in 1956. Its purpose, as
    described later by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, was “to expose, disrupt,
    misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize activities” of those
    individuals and organizations whose ideas or goals he opposed.
    If you understand the meaning of the tactic “to expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize activities” you will understand that the person who is most likely of being a Fed, is the one who involves human rights activists in activities that have no effect on those who are building tyranny, and activities that will destroy the credibility of the human rights activists.

    Misdirecting activities involves the goal of actually taking over the leadership. Taking over the leadership is the highest priority. Beware of new comers who volunteer to lead.
    Misdirecting activities is a fairly simple thing in organizations that put their agenda up for a vote. Infiltrators simply present alternative agendas until they have the organization bogged down with foolishness.
    The shill;s are all over the web :-) you have been warned

    • macvimto,

      This is precisely correct. That is exactly how they do it.

      Plus they have nasty “secret societies” to suppress whatever they consider “bad for their business.”

      Keep your affinity groups small; at 12 or less.

  29. As I have said before, I don’t believe that the WTC Buildings #1 and #2 were destroyed merely to provide a pretext for launching wars, but also to perpetrate a psy-op to befuddle the public by creating a very traumatic, yet physically implausible scenario so as to induce a permanent state learned helplessness. This would help explain why people no longer protest the outrageous transgressions of their government and the massive destruction of their way of life. Building #7 underwent a typical controlled demolition — however, #1 and #2 were destroyed by controlled detonations. Everyone could plainly see that they did not “collapse” at all, but rather exploded violently from the top down, as if they were Fourth of July sparkler sticks. The top of Building #2, the first to explode, began to lean over and fall, and this would have halted its collapse — but it didn’t collapse — it simply exploded in mid-air. Which is absurd.

    Merely destroying the steel support members of the buildings, as some claim could be accomplished with “thermite,” would not cause such top down detonations. So while the steel supports were certainly destroyed in some manner, this in itself cannot explain how the buildings exploded top-down. We were all made witness to an impossible event. People who claim that crashing aircraft can make buildings explode top-down are either fanatical or disingenuous.

    The instant removal of nearly all evidence, the refusal to seriously investigate, the many strange anomalous red herring events, etc., all point to outrageous criminality far more sinister than the initial plane crashes. Remember too, for example, that the planes were equipped with advanced radio-control devices that authorities with proper codes could have utilized to completely remove control of the aircraft from the hands of the pilots, and so on.

    It is presumably naive to imagine that any serious investigation will ever be undertaken. It would be far more productive to simply reassure the public that what they witnessed was indeed impossible unless ultra-sophisticated agents and special operations teams were involved. No, Virginia, it was not 19 minor league hijackers with box cutters who did it. Such reassurance would go far toward restoring the people’s confidence in their own competence and social potential.

  30. Jessiahtherational,

    You are a nutcase. Go back to raising sheep. Stop this insane disinfo, please.

    We all saw what really happened. So just go back to raising your sheep, or whatever.

    • I don’t think you saw what you think you saw.

      I like how a rational viewpoint that has valid questions and explanations that are contrary to you conspiracy theory is just “insane disinfo” to you. Is that how every viewpoint that you don’t agree with is?

      Are you sure you’re not the sheep? I mean, you are following this conspiracy BS as if it’s some kind of infallible gospel, never questioning its content.

      Why do you not want someone questioning the validity of this conspiracy anyways? Are you afraid you’re wrong? Why wouldn’t you want a discussion? If you’re theory was right, wouldn’t answering the questions that are asked only strengthen your argument and move your agenda forward that much more?

      Do you not want more answers? Why don’t you want to debate this topic? You’re here, this topic interests you, why do you not want to discuss it? I mean, that’s the whole point of having a discussion thread, to discuss it. If all anyone did was come here and “yes man” each other, this discussion section would just be a big circle jerk and nothing more.

      I wonder what’s going to be like 20 years from now when you look back at this time in your life and think to yourself “Wow, how did I believe in this crap? I must have been nuts.”

      • Sorry for calling you nutcase. Bad form. I was not referring to a conspiracy. I saw the buildings simply blow up with my own eyes. Many times. You say I didn’t see what I did see. So what’s to argue about?

        • Well, since it didn’t blow up, but collapsed after a plane hit it and then it burned with a shit ton of structural damage before it did, and there’s videos of the debris, and no signs of any kinds of explosives during the several months of going through that debris by the thousands of volunteers going through it… I guess there really isn’t anything to argue about.

          • There are “no signs of any kinds of explosives” simply because those with the evidence refuse to acknowledge looking for them!

            Willylowman said above in this very thread:
            /¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
            If you are going to conduct an investigation, official or otherwise, of a suspected controlled demolition, the very FIRST thing you should test for is the presence of the high explosive residues that are commonly used in the industry.

            Not only did FEMA, NIST, RJ LEE, and the 9/11 Commission fail to do that simple test… so did our glorious leader, Steven Jones. Not only did he not test for it (after suggesting someone else should) but he and his fellow “researchers” REFUSED to do so.

            Why the hell is that?
            \____________________

            All physical evidence around the WTC was swiftly cleared away. The few facilities that still have dust samples only report having tested for thermite-type incendiaries, and refuse to acknowledge having tested for nitrate or perchlorate based explosive materials. Many skeptics are seeking reports of such testing, but as of yet, none have been released. If anyone has links to such reports, they surely should post them. Traces of thermite-type chemicals have been detected, but such incendiaries could not have caused the buildings to explode top-down as they did.

            For example, there are no reports of tests for the explosive PETN, which can only be detonated by powerful blasting squibs, not by ordinary heat or shock. PETN could easily have been extruded into vertical electrical, communications, and ventilation shafts, etc. There would be few or no blast points, since the entire buildings themselves would have been the “blast points.”

          • What I really mean is, what about exploded bomb fragments? Pieces of bomb parts or anything of like that in the debris. Why is there nothing of that nature found? Certainly one of the thousands of responders would have come upon something like that if it were there.

            On a different note, suppose it was a better world and the terrorist attack did not happen or was prevented. Would these supposed bombs that were placed before hand just be sitting there to this day waiting to be discovered? Seems like it would be a pretty massive risk to depend on a successful terror attack for. Are there bombs sitting in some building that Flight 93 was intended for?

            What is the benefit for the conspirators again? The Patriot Act? War in Afghanistan and Iraq? Wouldn’t the terror attack pretty much provide an excuse for those anyway, even if the towers didn’t fall?

            Eh, maybe I shouldn’t get side tracked, I’m mostly curious about the bomb fragment thing.

          • I proposed that explosive material was extruded into vertical electrical, communications, and ventilation shafts, etc. There would be no “bomb fragments” because the buildings themselves were the bombs. And we know that all evidence was immediately removed, largely by volunteers who were duped into believing that the environment there was safe, although we all now know it was not. The buildings were going to be exploded whether they were hit by planes or not. However, the planes were going to fly into the buildings no matter what happened because their emergency remote flight control systems removed control of their systems from the pilots.

            The primary goal of this operation was to perpetrate a psy-op to befuddle the public by creating a very traumatic, yet physically implausible scenario so as to induce a permanent state learned helplessness. This would help explain why people no longer protest the outrageous transgressions of their government and the massive destruction of their way of life. Merely flying planes into buildings would not have provided the necessary shock and awe: The buildings had to explode.

            The fate of Flight 93 is a murky issue — willylowman proposes that it was intended to hit building #7, but was shot down. Apparently you have not bothered to read this entire thread. And you seem to overlook many of the various possibilities. Think deeper.

  31. Jessiah

    The fragments issue is very simple. For 9 months following Sept. 11th, there was an operation taking place at Fresh Kills landfill where the debris was hauled off too.

    Four tents were set up with a conveyer belt running through each one. They took the loose debris, the dust and other material, and they ran it on the belt while 5 or 6 agents literally sifted through it all picking out small pieces of stuff for 12 hours a day. That went on for 9 months. My guess is they were looking for the exact same kind of things you might be talking about. What they found… who knows….

    Also, during the clean up on site, there were agents on rooftops of surrounding buildings watching the workers. When they found stuff and picked up stuff, the agents would radio other agents on the ground and they would go over and see what they found and take it.

    And for the record, Flight 93 was on a heading going straight for lower Manhattan when it was shot down. Building 7 was the intended target and they decided to demo Building 7 anyway at 5:20 pm on Sept 11th.

    • Even if what the workers found was taken away from them, they’d still be able to have looked at what they picked up, and say they found this or that afterward. These workers were mostly firefighters or military volunteers, people who do have training with explosives and would be able to recognize pieces of them if they came across them. There were thousands of volunteers, yet none of them found anything of that nature?

      • We don’t know what they found or didn’t find. Remember, there were hundreds of tons of dust and pulverized debris. The heat wave from the explosions literally vaporized steel trusses (about 40,000 of them that you can’t find in a single photo of Ground Zero, trust me, I looked at hundreds of them) whatever evidence may have been there were this a normal demo would have been vaporized as well, at least much of it would have.

        There is no way of knowing what they found sifting through the tons of dust and debris like they did for 9 months. What we do know is that there is a great deal of existing evidence that shows that this was a “combustion event” as it was put in the RJ Lee report (a scientific analysis of the dust, not some “truther” study). The evidence that is there says something other than the official story had to take place.

        What I have done is looked seriously at the hard evidence that is there and looked at the undeniable circumstantial evidence, and come to a conclusion based on those. That conclusion is that what happened at the WTC was a controlled demolition. Watch the Building 7 videos and tell me that doesn’t look like a controlled demolition.

        Evidence is there to support that conclusion.

        • Man,

          if I was a criminal, I’d hate to have you on my trail.

          I’d hate it, that is, unless I owned the courts. Oh, yeah, and the cops, and the soldiers, and the government, and the mainstream media, and the school curriculum, and the–well, shit, might as well say it and save space: Unless I owned the whole fucking System–past to present.

          But, because I do own all that, I can make it you who’s looked at, and stepped away from.

          r ap

  32. Blues

    High explosives have a definate shelf life. They were not built into the building during construction… it doesn’t work that way. They had plenty of time to rig it and CDI helped control the clean-up for about 9 months after the event. More than likely they were the ones who made sure certain things were never found.

  33. Both of you

    The point is that we can’t really know how the Towers were rigged. They had the opportunity and they kept the records for who went in and out of the building. During the cleanup they were in control of it and kept the records of what was found. So these aspects of the unofficial investigation are at a designed stand still

    What we do know is that many aspects of the official story defy the laws of physics and that there were literally tons of hard evidence found and reported on that prove beyond any reasonable doubt that temperatures existed during the destruction of the towers that are impossible without high explosives. Period. That, my friends, is solid, hard scientific evidence that the official story is incorrect. Combine that with the scores of circumstantial evidence, and you have the beginings of a very solid criminal case, were the official investigation to ever take place. That’s what I try to focus on.

  34. Please let me know what you think of my take on nanothermite from my article in Veterans Today of August 27, 2011, “Nanothermite: If It Doesn’t Fit, You Must Acquit!”

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/27/nanothermite-if-it-doesnt-fit-you-must-acquit/

    http://tmarkhightower.wordpress.com/

    Thank you.
    Mark
    T Mark Hightower
    San Jose, CA

    • Fascinating, Mr. Hightower. As you may or may not know, I have been making the same argument about the inability of “nanothermite” to be used as a high explosive in a controlled demolition application and the subsequent mounds of disinformation that followed my original questioning of the “nanothermite” evidence years ago. Yes, it is absolutely probable that the planned demolition of the Truth movement will center around the debunking of the nanothermite evidence. The creators of the nanothermite story have refused several times to test for residues of high explosives which must be in the Ground Zero dust.

  35. What are you people afraid of? When I saw the towers go down I saw a skilled demolition and wondered how it could have been done, but make no mistake it took a lot of skill to bring those buildings down the way they came down. So, what are you afraid of? You seem to be running from the truth. Why?

    • I ain’t no scientist/ engineer etc I’m just a Brit who is confused since the day the planes hit the towers and pentagon (allegedly not seen pentagon footage as yet) as to why it was only reported once on the bbc and that was before it even fell wtf.com :s

      • Building No 7 I mean.

        • I would say though that Those buildings that fell where surely designed to callapse straight down in on themselves as would most tall buildings in heavily populated areas…thousands of tons of steel and concrete collapsing would easily bring down a building at free fall speed. terriorsts would have done homework on where to hit buildinds with heavily loaded planes to bring the buildings down. I know a pilot who said anyone who can land a plane could easily fly one of those jets and hit a building that size a piece of piss. they knew exactly where to hit the towers to cause most devastion that I believe was the work of terrorist scientists/ engineers.

  36. I recently watched a video that made a very convincing arguement in the idea that thermonuclear devices in the bottom of the main elevator shafts would be a likely cause. The arguement made is extensive and very convincing. It also explains building 7 and all of the damage within the possible blast radius. Cars with the tower-side halves completely oxidized, windows blown out blocks away, and all of the dust produced from the collapse.

  37. […] More Bad Science Surrounding the “Nano-Thermite” Red Herring […]

  38. Regardless of who says what or who is trying to prove who wrong . America has millions of peoples blood on they’re hands .
    9/11 was an inside job it is glaringly blatant ,evidence destroyed ,plains hi jacked and flown into highly watched air space very easily .what my problem is why is the world letting them away with it the world sat back and watched as America raided Iraq ,Afghanistan and now I believe are trying to gain control of the rest of the Middle East .If the truth movement do find any evidence it will just be pushed aside by people trying there hardest to “debunk” there theory’s .your government killed your own people for money simple as that and they have gotten away with it and seriously don’t see in my life time any one or government being brought to court for this . BRING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT

  39. Never saw such a bunch of useless comments like this, except of course on all the other sites where complete loons love to indulge in wacko conspiracy theories. What is it about Americans that leaves them slackjawed and willing to believe completely stupid and asinine theories? You boys are scared of your own shadows. Hand fluttering all around like little sissies. Israelis waving on buses, nanothermite paint, steel doesn’t bend and other idiotic rubbish.

    I blame it on poor education, no concept of reality in an engineering sense, and blatherings from grocery checkout boys, fast food servers, retail store clerks and any number of other self-admitted geniuses with no relevant education, and the need to run a blog to show other people just how smart they are. Not.

    Nanotechnology. In its infancy in 2001. No real production of nanothermite in any quantity at the time. Scratch that one.

    Steel. Some genius thinks the building was made of high-strength steel. What, in 1971? No production quantity available. Each tower had 100,000 tons of regular old structural steel, and that means the buildings probably weighed ten times as much when you include millions of paper files, concrete, glass and furnishings

    Steel doesn’t bend when heated. Right. Blacksmiths don’t exist, I suppose. Fire cladding was added to the steel just for show, I suppose. It’s a heat insulator, applied to lengthen the time it takes for heat to get at the steel. Why? Because steel weakens materially when heated.

    Blacksmiths have furnaces to burn regular fuel with a forced draught to raise the temperature enough to heat metal to the point where it can be worked. WTC tower? A natural chimney to raise the burning temperature of thousands of tons of paper. For goodness sake ceiling temperatures in a regular house fire get to 2000 degrees when flashover occurs. Watch the Discovery Channel and learn something.

    WTC 2 which fell first did not fall straight down. Wikipedia will tell you that. Chunks fell on WTC 7 and other buildings. The rush of compressed air is what caused the plumes of dust to spread outwards. Know what the sound of a hand clap is? Hint – it ain’t the sound of flesh on flesh. Hit your left arm with your right hand. Not much of a clap now, is it? It’s compressed air escaping that causes the hand clap sound. Now let a few hundred thousand tons fall on itself floor by floor and you get wind and a thunder clap. You don’t get dust 2 miles away without wind, in this case self-generated by the collapse.

    For my sins, I’ve been a mechanical engineer for 45 years, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned in that time, it’s that Joe Average citizen hasn’t got a clue about anything beyond using a hammer and a circular saw for home renovations. Beyond that, I hear theories that make no sense to an engineer. People don’t even know how to make a structurally safe patio. And then, using this vast amount of non-knowledge, they try and tell me how things work. Car mechanics don’t know how car engines really work – they think they do, but it’s all about bolting things together to them, not the real theory. Like the difference between a nurse and a doctor.

    And that’s what I think is happening here. People, with no damn idea whatsoever about how things really work, can’t wrap their uneducated minds around reality, cannot understand the explanations because “it makes no sense to me”, and don’t have the intellectual capacity to realize just how dumb and under-educated they are. Doesn’t fit the self-image, hence the dumbass conspiracy theories put forward by a bunch of oinkers

    • Not only are you an ass and a fool, but you’re a liar as well.

      “little sissies”? “Watch the Discovery Channel and learn something.”? “WTC tower? A natural chimney to raise the burning temperature”?

      Yeah, you’re right on that one… I don’t watch show on the Discovery Channel and then consider myself educated on the matter. I read the NIST report in this case which stated quite clearly that they didn’t have any evidence that any beam was exposed to temperatures in excess of 650 deg f. That’s science and evidence garnered from actual investigation of the evidence at hand… not a TV show positing the “natural chimney theory” so I guess you might find that kind of tedious reading a bit more difficult than watching a show on a channel that admits they air various “documentaries” that are completely made-up fiction, like their Megalodon show.

      http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/science-sushi/2013/08/05/shark-week-jumps-the-shark-an-open-letter-to-discovery-communications/#.UpCbzSeUOQE

      Learn something watching the Discovery Channel? are you an idiot as well? sounds like it.

      For one thing, I know you’re a liar.

      No mechanical engineer is going to say the Towers were a “natural chimney”. That’s just stupid and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the process of designing a sky-scraper.

      Buildings are designed to keep fire contained, one floor to the next. A lot of hard work and engineering go into the process. The floors under the strike zones were undamaged by the crashes so the fail-safes for keeping fire from spreading were still in place as was explained by the fire fighters, the ones who survived afterward as well as the ones who died radioing in what they found as they moved up the building to rescue people and put out fires.

      In reality, after reading their reports and the hundreds of pages of the first responder’s testimony about what they found when they got there, it’s safe to say the fires were burning themselves out (hence all the black, oxygen starved smoke we ALL SAW)…

      NIST made clear that exact same conclusion because they are actually engineers and they took the time to do a little research into the matter.

      I guess they should have watched Discover Channel, huh?

      idiot

      “Some genius thinks the building was made of high-strength steel. What, in 1971? No production quantity available. Each tower had 100,000 tons of regular old structural steel,”

      Well, that’s all well and good just to fucking say, but if you were to actually take the time to do just a little investigation into the matter, you would find out, you’re wrong again. Imagine that? A “mechanical engineer” doesn’t know the history of steel manufacturing.

      “The composition of the trusses was not simply carbon and iron as has been suggested by many others. That would be the main composition of A-36 structural steel. But as NIST points out, in the fabrication process of the trusses, the company that made them substituted a higher grade steel, a HSLA steel, for the parts of the trusses that were to be comprised of A-36 structural steel. They also used ASTM A-242 steel in the trusses. This could explain the reports of silicone, sulfur, and various other metals found in the “iron rich spheres”.”

      http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/sneak-peak-revised-demolition-theory-hypothesis/

      You can go to that webpage (mine) and look over the exact competition of the two types of high grade structural steel used in the trusses as complied by the NCSTAR investigation (NIST)

      But of course, these facts may have been left off of the show put together by the channel known for producing fake documentaries.

      https://www.metabunk.org/threads/what-do-you-think-about-discovery-channels-fake-documentaries.2414/

      I’m not taking the time to fill in these blanks for you. If you think of yourself as a doctor compared to everyone else just being “nurses” and you think that way because you watch Discovery Channel, there’s not much anyone can do for you. You’re an idiot. Not a single person posting here has left that kind of ridiculously stupid statement. Not only is it insulting to our intelligence just having to respond to you, but you clearly don’t understand the hard work and education it takes to be a nurse these days. Your dismissive attitude toward them speaks volumes. I hope you enjoy your next trip to the hospital.

      I write this comment to those who might tune in for a laugh because they know damn well I won’t let ridiculous propaganda like your comment sit on my site unanswered. I love exposing you influence peddlers in my forum. Can smell you cubicle jockeys a mile away.

      For those of you who are interested, read what real engineers think about the formation of hundreds of thousands of tons of metal microspheres in the Ground Zero dust… read the RJ Lee report “WTC Dust: Composition and Morphology” … here’s a preview:

      In addition to the spherical iron and aluminosilicate particles, a variety of heavy metal particles including lead, cadmium, vanadium, yttrium, arsenic, bismuth, and barium particles were produced by the pulverizing, melting and/or combustion of the host materials such as solder, computer screens, and paint during the WTC Event.

      Combustion-related products are significant WTC Dust Markers, particularly if seen in combination.

      … The differences within the WTC Dust and typical background dusts include the fineness and evidence of heat…

      … The amount of energy introduced during the generation of the WTC Dust and the ensuing conflagration caused various components to vaporize. RJ Lee

      and if anybody wishes to hear from 2099 professional working architects and engineers who have taken the time to research the official story of the collapse of the buildings and come to disagree with it, you can check out Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth here;

      http://www.ae911truth.org/signatures/ae.html

      That’s a bunch of real engineers who ask real questions and do real research and read real reports… they don’t just watch the Discovery Channel and think they’re doctors.

      In short “Bill”, you lose.

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