The Criminalization of Politics and Other Fine Talking Points

by Scott Creighton

Yesterday, during the House Judiciary Committee’s hearing ”Executive Power and it’s Constitutional Limitations“, as an argument for not opening an investigation into criminal acts by this administration, the same talking point came up time and time again; these “demented” people who call for impeachment are trying to “criminalise” political differences: the Criminalization of Politics. 

Now this would normally fall into the silly smoke screen category (especially after what we KNOW happened at the Department of Justice with Carl Rove’s help) …if we hadn’t heard it before. But of course the interesting thing about this is where we have heard it before.

The other day, there was a debate on NPR’s Democracy Now, between Glenn Greenwald and  Obama advisor Cass Sunstein about the need for impeachment. Sunstein made reference to a previous argument he had made at the recent NetRoots Conference about impeaching this administration seeming like criminalizing political differences.

Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, he argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton–or even the “slight appearance” of it.” Ari Membler on the Sunstein statement at the Netroots Conference from The Nation.

During the debate with Glenn Greenwald, Sunstein defended his previous comment by interjecting the notion that “egregious crimes” shouldn’t be overlooked. “When I talk about a fear of criminalizing political disagreement, I don’t mean to suggest that we shouldn’t criminalize crimes. Crimes are against the law, and if there’s been egregious wrongdoing in violation of the law, then it’s not right to put a blind eye to that.” C. Sunstein, Democracy Now.

Of course, that begs the questions; which “crimes” do we “put a blind eye to…” and, who decides? The Congress? Pelosi? Conyers? Dean? Obama?

The problem there, is that ALL of the aforementioned potential “deciders” are representatives of THE PEOPLE. Presumably there to do the WILL of the people. And by all accounts, the vast majority of The People in this country want there to be accountability from this administration for their reckless assault on the Constitution and our liberties. Yet, Sunstein is debating that that shouldn’t happen. So, who is really “the decider”?

But, even granting Sunstein his little correction about egregious wrongdoings, he his still quite off-base with the principle argument. 

A President should never to be allowed to get away with ANY crimes for he, above all others, must be held to a higher moral, legal, and ethical standard of any of us. Not the opposite. I made this same argument during the impeachment trial of President Clinton, when, in my opinion, he should have been impeached for lying to Congress and attempting to obstruct justice. It was quite clear.

But Sunstein goes even further in his blatant apologist’s rationalization of the crimes of this administration.

Well, there has been a big debate among law professors and within the Supreme Court about the President’s adherent authority to wiretap people….the idea that it’s an impeachable offense to adopt an incorrect interpretation of the President’s power, that, I think, is too far-reaching. There are people in the Clinton administration who share Bush’s view with respect to foreign surveillance.” Sunstein.

The idea that the President or his staff may indeed avoid prosecution for their many crimes based on the notion that they can’t be held accountable for misinterpreting the law is completely disingenuous. The fact that an adviser to the presumptive candidate from the opposing political Party would advance this hogwash, in order to defend a criminal administration just months before the election, is, to say the least, very… revealing.

So, it is not surprising that several Republican members of the House Judiciary Committee, including Rep. Lungren, picked up on this talking-point and parroted it during the hearing yesterday. The logic being now that a leading member of the majority party has made the claim that this whole thing could be nothing more than criminalizing politics, it is no longer just a smoke-screen, but instead it’s a bi-partisan statement of fact. Not because Sunstein is correct in his interpretation, but because the Republicans on the committee can put-forward the argument and then use Obama’s adviser’s statement to muddy the waters of the debate, forcing any argument to run down Sunstein’s comment first.

It’s a layered distraction, pre-manufactured for the minority Party in the House of Representatives by a usually thoughtful, legal scholar who calls himself a democrat and who should have known better.  So, the next question must be, why would he do it, knowing that it would be picked up on and used to defend the rogue administration?

Layered distractions seemed to be the order of the day for the republicans in the committee yesterday. Both Trent Franks and Steve King, went through a rather short list of Democratic Party all-stars, when they tried to suggest that “everyone” believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

That argument was put to rest by panelist Vincent Bugliosi when he correctly pointed out that the reason that these people thought that there were weapons of mass destruction was because the administration had edited the intelligence estimate about Iraq so that it would better suit the war-mongers intentions of invading that country. They were basing their conclusions on the tainted evidence that Cheney’s “Office of Special Plans” had cherry-picked to justify going to war.

The circular logic of King and Lungren being obvious: Bush didn’t lie because he thought he was correct, and Clinton, Rockefeller, Albright, Kerry, Gore all thought the same thing (because of Bush’s lies). They were all just duped by the intel (that was created by Cheney’s OSP).

So again, the waters are muddied by the appearance of a bi-partisan consensus of misinformed agreement. Now remember what Sunstein said earlier? “There are people in the Clinton administration who share Bush’s view with respect to foreign surveillance.” Cass himself is also priming the pot for the bi-partisan cop-out meme. Again I ask, why?

Well, there may be one clue in the people they are quoting. Clinton, Rockefeller, Kerry, Gore, Albright… they are all deep political insiders with family ties to serious monied interests in this country. They are all players, so to speak, in what Greenwald calls the politico-class. Certainly, now, no matter what happens in November, Obama can be said to have joined that elite club of networked insiders in the investor/beltway club. As Nixon had his Kissenger and Clinton had his Albright, so to now does Obama have his Sunstein.

These people work on a level far beyond the limits of Party loyalty or agenda. They serve a class of people that don’t really care about anything more than maintaining the status-quo. As George Bush once said when addressing a fund raiser with “the haves and the have mores…”, “Some people call you the elite. I call you my base.”

And I would suggest to you here now, that it isn’t Bush or Cheney that the Sunstein’s of our political crisis are protecting, it’s that “base”. Because if you allow impeachment hearings to get underway, without any reservations I will promise you this: the corrupt connections between the super-monied class and this administration will have to be exposed. And when that happens, many in this country are deathly afraid that the majority of Americans will start to see this savage capitalist system for what it is: a detriment to both our quality of life and democracy as a whole. With the economy as it is, just how far reaching could the ramifications of that become?

That’s why the Sunsteins and the Kissengers and the Albrights dutifully tow the line of both Parties and neither simultaneously. They must do what is necessary to maintain the status-quo for the elite class that runs this country.

And that is why we shouldn’t be surprised when we see certain talking points blurring Party lines. Because at that level, there is only one line: the one we can’t step across, that divides us from them.

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22 Responses

  1. Interesting…. glad you noticed that…. nice article Willyloman

  2. I’ve ask’ed this question before, and i now present it once again. Taking into account the negitive ramifications of impeachment NOT occureing, and continueing on down the road we all are on, and beleive me, as it stands, we are all forced to go along for the ride.

    If we cannot have our due process rights excercised through impeachment,
    then what? THEN WHAT??? I WANT TO KNOW,,, DO WE JUST EXCEPT THAT, AND LIVE WITH IT, COME WHAT MAY??????? I WANT TO KNOW…

  3. Im dissappointed that there is no answer to my question above.

  4. Impeachment is the constitutional prescription needed to address this cancer. All avenues of that treatment must be explored before we resort to amputation.

  5. Willy, I understand that. But, you really didn’t answer the question however. So, please, allow me the induldgence to rephrase the original question, and as well, resubmitt it to you.

    If the Constitutional Prescription(s) you refer to above, are ultimatly denied us, and there most certainly will come A moment, within this denial, where all of us are then forced to come to a realization, pertainning to acknowledgement that our 14th amendent due process rights have in fact been denied, and that fact becomes a foregone conclusion, and subsequently therefore, it also becomes a foregone conclusion, that there are no further “legal” avenues available to pursue, with respect to impeachment, WHAT THEN ? Does that just end any further attempt’s to acquire legal accountibillity from this administration, ever? Or THEN,,, do we consider alternate remedies? And what alternate remedies can possibly be employed?

    Because, it appears to me, that to come to this realization, and to then except the enivitible surrender this represents, then I would think that sites like this, and ADS.ORG as well as countless other’s would just be taken off the air waves( so to speak) Because what would be the use from then on of representing resistance, if that is what we all are doin. Do we hope for the best, go find a hobby to get involved in and put this all behind us?

    One more question, and then ill go shut the fuck up. If you please

    Willy, am I even asking rational question’s? I put that one to you in absolute good faith sir. shutting up now…………………..

  6. hello Scott, your question is not directed to me but I (of course) have a few words to maybe enlighten you. When you read history and fiction…. both are more related than you think…. you see the all powerful groups begin to tear each other apart….. jealousy has no rival….. someone is always working behind the other’s back…. the bigger the power group, the bigger the rifts grow…. they are already beginning… keep your peace and let them tear into each other… We will have our laugh and our America…… maybe it is God’s way of dealing with the inflated egos.

  7. Scott:

    “If the Constitutional Prescription(s) you refer to above, are ultimatly denied us, and there most certainly will come A moment, within this denial, where all of us are then forced to come to a realization,…”

    Right now, you are talking about a hypothetical situation, which I have been telling people is going to happen for some time now, but it is still a hypothetical situation.

    Allow me to give you an example. During the Nixon impeachment, old “tricky dick” didn’t just give up either. Until, the INVESTIGATION started, and even then, he though he could get rid of some people (Sat. Night Masacre) and he would be alright. till the tapes showed up. The one tape… and that was it.

    Now, the media and all the pundits can spin it how they want, but the truth is, the insurance companies and the military industrial complex, didn’t want the American people to hear those tapes, so nixon took one “for the team”.

    Now, you and I are on the same page, but, you have to know, that I know the media is complicit as well as the democratic party.

    BUT, and this is BIG, BUT… were we to find the ONE thing, like the Nixon tapes or the Pentagon Papers or the dress with the semen on it,… were we to find that ONE thing, it would be over.

    Pelosi would find her courage; the press would find their heart; and the dems would unite (as well as the republicans) to oust this criminal regime, and they would seperate themselves fast.

    We haven’t found that yet, and that is the most important thing in the world right now. We need the proof. There is alot out there, don’t get me wrong, but NONE of it is the same as a dress with cum on it or a tape with Nixon saying “fuck ‘em” on it.

    You see? that is what we need.

    Beyond that… well, we have to take these things one at a time, there buddy. It’s a strange, strange world we are about to live in.

  8. Jan;

    “We will have our laugh…”

    yes. in time. this kind of criminally aggressive capitalism will only last so long. People are already starting to see it for what it is; a fiction created by the multi-millionares for us to buy into… like a pyramid scheme.

    You are right; in time, we will expose it for what it is. and we are doing that now.

    thank you for your insightful comment

  9. Well, thank you for not refering to what Odd-Ball said to Moriority in Kellys Heros “there you go again moriority with the negitive vibes. Always with the negitive vibes” Have a little faith b a b y. ooooooh kay.

  10. Oh, I don’t have any faith that we will find it; but let’s not jump the gun quite yet. you know?

  11. Willy, i got something interresting to tell you.
    I am a virtual fly-boy thanks to ms flt simulator. Understand flt sim is NOT a game, it is a flt simulation.

    I use flt sim 2002. I have downloaded additional acft. I fly heavies. Im not a fighter jock. so, i got this flt sim package from best buy in Jan 01. recall, it’s flt sim 2002. on the Manhaton scenery are the twin towers. After 9-11, it’s my understanding microsoft had all the flt sim 2002′s pulled off the shelves of every outlet that sold them. Its my understanding the 2002 was latter returned to store shelves but MINUS the twin towers in the MANHATON SCEENERY FILE. Today, i pulled up the JFK apt to begin a kc-10 flt with a plan to do a fly over Lower Manhaton.
    well guess what? NO TWIN TOWERS IN THE BELOW CITY SCEENERY!

    SO, i deleated the program entirly, and completely re-installed microsoft flight simulator 2002. linked to JFK, took off, flew over LOWER MANHATON AND GUESS WHAT? NO TWIN TOWERS!!

    MY CONTENTION IS THEREFORE, THAT IN ONE OF THE RECENT AUTOMATIC (SECURITY) UPDATES THAT OCCURE REGURLARY, AS YOU KNOW , MICROSOFT HAS PLACED A PATCH INTO MY COMPUTER REMOVING ANY ABILITY TO HAVE THE TWIN TOWERS IN MY MANHATON SCEENERY. PRESENTLY, IM TREATING THIS AS IN INVASIVE INTRUSION, AND UNAUTHORIZED MODIFICATION TO A PROGRAM THAT WAS PURCHASED IN IT’S ENTIRETY AS OFFERED AT THE TIME OF THE SALE DATING BACK TO JAN 01.
    AS THE OWNER OF THE SERIAL NUMBERED PROGRAM, I WAS NEITHER CONSULTED BEFOREHAND, NOR NOTIFIED AFTERWARD. UNDERSTAND ALSO, AT THE PRESENT TIME, I HAVE NO EVIDENCE MICRO SOFT ACTUALLY DID THIS REMOVAL, BUT ,,,,,,,,
    iM PRETTY SURE BASED ON THEIR PREVEIOUS REMOVALS OF THE TOWERS, THAT IS WHERE THE ANSWER LIES. MICROSOFT DID IT. ANY THOUGHTS?

  12. I have decided to file a formal complaint against Microsoft, to the ILLINOIS ATTORNY GENERALS office, head quarted here in Springfield Illinois. The AG , lisa Madigan, is a liberal Democrat. Ill need some way to make a substantial preliminary demonstration ref these twin towers in the Manhaton sceenery. Down loading on a computer WITHOUT ANY ONLINE CONNECTION, WILL ALLOW THE MANHATON SCEENERY DOWNLOAD TO INCLUDE THE TOWERS. iT HAS TO BE A COMPUTER NOT EVER HAVING ONLINE UPDATES FROM MICROSOFT. I have been using flt sim to test some theories related
    to 9-11. Mostly flt 77 related. specificlly the probibillities of entering high speed stall charicteristics in a high bank, extreem low attitude (didn’t say ALTITUDE,,,SAID ATTI-TUDE) high speed dessent. With all ACFT AND AERODYNAMIC PARIMITERS SET TO MAX PROROTYPICAL CORRECTNESS AND NO CHEATS WHAT SO EVER.

  13. hi scott;
    If you reinstall the original game, I am sure that the Towers will be there, just like you say. Microsoft makes the Flight Sim game and they are constantly revising the major city-scapes to remain current. Not only are the Towers gone, but they will put up new buildings, say in Atlanta and other places to keep the game up to date. I don’t think Micro-softs security patches did it, the game itself links to the net every time you start the computer, and looks for updates.

    That’s an interesting idea, using Flight Sim to check the flight path of 77. There is a consistant agreement that Hanjour couldn’t have pulled off that manuver. Trained and experienced pilots say they could have done it, but it was so difficult, that they doubt a guy who could barely fly s Cessna could.

    However, thats not the real sticking point. According to the flight data recorder, 77 never got below 270 feet of altitude. Ground level there is about 140 ft if I am not misstaken…

    so that means the lowest altitude off the ground was 130 ft .5 seconds from impact.

    That if the light poles were40ft tall, how did that plane on that flight path hit them?

    also that would mean that that huge 757 would have to dip down, and then pull up and level off to strike the light poles and skim the surface of the ground like the video shows.

    all in .5 seconds.

    That equates to about a negative 6 Gs dip and then a positive 9 G pull up, all in the space of .5 seconds… and no one could do that in a 757 that is designed to hold 2 G maximum.

    If you would like to see a great explination of the reading of the flight path data from the guy who got it through a FOIA request, then let me know and I can post that up here.

  14. I did reinstall, and no, the towers are gone. Understand, with 2002, i never have to insert any of the three CD’s. Willy, im relitively sure there has never been any updates that i could visually observe. They took out the towers. Nothing else is changed in the lower Manhaton sceenery.

    starting at 7,000ft then upon entering a 130 degree spiraling dessent, this always overstress the airframe, or acft enters a high speed stall and I lose total control. according to official gov 9-11 report, air speed at impact was 535 mph. I don’t actually think experienced capt’s could, or ever would (dare) try this menuver. It’s just too dangerious. I can’t even do it with a 737 airframe.

    Willy, you don’t see this removal as an act of impropriety? Im asking because, i tend to over react sometimes.

  15. SOMETHING WEIRD GOING ON HERE. I WROTE THE BELOW RESPONSE, BUT IT DID NOT MAKE IT IN.

    I did reinstall, and no, the towers are gone. Understand, with 2002, i never have to insert any of the three CD’s. Willy, im relitively sure there has never been any updates that i could visually observe. They took out the towers. Nothing else is changed in the lower Manhaton sceenery.

    starting at 7,000ft then upon entering a 130 degree spiraling dessent, this always overstress the airframe, or acft enters a high speed stall and I lose total control. according to official gov 9-11 report, air speed at impact was 535 mph. I don’t actually think experienced capt’s could, or ever would (dare) try this menuver. It’s just too dangerious. I can’t even do it with a 737 airframe.

    Willy, you don’t see this removal as an act of impropriety? Im asking because, i tend to over react sometimes.

  16. OK THERE IT IS NOW. I DON’T KNOW WHY IT DIDN’T MAKE IT IN, THE FIRST TIME.
    OOOH WELL…..

  17. ALRIGHT, I WENT ON THE 2002 SIM, PULLED UP RN WY 22 AT REAGAN NATIONAL, THE C-5 COCKPIT, THE ALT SHOWED 32.3 FT MSL. THAT SPOT ACCROSS THE RIVER MAY BE LOWER. I DON’T KNOW. DON’T KNOW THE RELIABILITY OF THE PROGRAM SHOWING THAT ALT. I DIDN’T THINK TO CHECK THE BY RELITIVE PRESURE.
    I WONDER IF I COULD PULL IT OFF IN THE L-C-5? NEVER HAVE TRIED. MAN IT’S HOT N HUMID HERE TODAY.

  18. have you seen that film by the guy who studied the flight data recorder info? It’s good. i will find it again.

    Many programs have automated updates that you never see. They are usually set to update at start-up of the system.

    what you will have to do is install the game on a system that hasn’t had that game on it, that is not connected to the internet.

    or you can check with the Flight Sim fan sites. I’m sure there are many.

    see what they are saying about it.

    I am also sure, that someone somewhere was so pissed off about this, that they made a patch to replace the towers in manhattan. I would almost bet someone did it.

  19. there have been many pilots at pilots49/11truth that say the manuver wouldn’t stall, but it would be very hard to keep the plane from nosing into the ground after that turn.

    also, they do say that flying that fast so close to the ground for such a long distance is next to impossible, because the “wake” (for lack of a better term) of the jets would force the plane into the ground again. I don’t know.

    contact the pilots for 9/11 truth. I bet they have Flight Sim. see what they say. let me know.

  20. OK here is the lattest info regarding the missing towers. I brought in a Flt sim tec and heres the poop. I am mistaken about my purchase date of Jan 01. How do i know this? Because he pulled up all the files within the downloaded program, and the last file put into flt sim 2002, by microsoft occured in April 01. That means the 2001 had not yet been released to the public as of April 01. As fot the towers, I had been operating Flt Sim 2000, and upon instaling FLT SIM 2002, I elected to keep the 2000 program installed. The tec says some 2000 files carried over into the 2002 program when it was installed. A few months ago, my combat flt sim was somehow currupted, and I deleated that, as well as the flt sim 2000. What was weird was all this deleating somehow, for unexplained reason, took the FLT SIM 2002 with it. SUbsequently, i had to reinstall 2002 also. My FLT SIM 2002 was downloaded onto a computer not having online connection, no towers were present. So this proves my memory, my assumptions, are all wrong.It was 8 years ago, there Has been Alot of weed in there, and my memory has been corrupted. bottom line. What can i say? The evidence supporting all this is inrefutible. IM THEREFORE CONVINCED BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT. Im almost dissappointed. I was looking forward to a battle via the Ill AG, against Microsoft. aaaah, what can i say. I got more for you below .

    THE WAKE YOU REFER TO, IM SURE, what your refering to is “ground effect”
    which consist of highly disturbed air pattearns, formed slightly ahead of the leading edge of the air foil, (wings) bouncing off the ground and striking the underside of the airfoil,at super velocity, creating a sort of uncontroled lift charicteristic, that requires the immediate bleeding off of forward motion until ACFT WT overcomes this lift. This occures everytime the acft is finally configured to settle down on the pavement during last 20 sec’s of landing. Even with spoilers activated, at times this can be a chore depending on head wind velocity. It’s not a dangerious situation at normal speeds, and these effects to be delt with, are a flt constant. Now, dealing with this situation at, in excess of the manufactures speed restrictions below 10,000, (which is approximatly 250 kts below 10,000 FT MSL) (the bigger the ACFT the more restrictive and critical, compliance would be especially if 77 was operating at near max TAKE OFF WT and bear in mind this restriction is directly related to air frame overstreeses) so now, lets set asside the overspeed factor. now lets consider ground effect, added to overspeed, at alledgly, and i think this claim is exceptible, 40 ft MSL (LITE POLES) IN AN OVERSPEED SITUATION.
    NOOOO F U C K I N G W A Y! THAT AIR BOUNCING OFF THE UNDERSIDE OF THAT AIRFOIL, WOULD BE EQUIVUALANT, THE EFFECTS WOULD BE IDENTICAL TO WHEN YOU SEE A HIGH SPEED BOAT BOUNCING OVER THE WATER!except, imagine that boat doin 125 mph. iT’ED BE LIKE RIDIN THE WILDEST BULL YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE. The faster that ACFT goes, the more ulitmat positive lift it attains with respect to it operating wt from GND effect air masses. No sane competent capt would ever, EVER try this due in large part to the speed violations with respect to streeses on the airframe. For any to say they could do it, no they cant,cause their eqpt wont do it, not in a B737-757-767-and especially HELL NO! on a 777 ! The only air frame that can excede mach .8 40 ft MSL is a TOMAHAWK CRUISE MISSCLE AND IT AINT GOT NO AIR FOIL ITS GOT FINS AND WONDERFULL PERPULSION AND GUIDANCE.
    So therefore sir, there is nothing else to say. Im seeing that ole vision again willy. i see those guys around the fire. the aid says again “but Senior el vice presidentia, It’s common knowledge in the aviatian profession,sir, that all acft operating at overspeed, at those altitudes will encounter disrupting ground effect that will make level flt impossible for the most experienced pilot, let alone some raghead kid who cant even operate one of those small single engine trainners. and sir, thats assuming he survives overstressing the acft and gets down that close to the ground. These assumptions sir,that your purposing simply wont stand up to any genuine scrutney.

    Anything you can make available, related specificlly to FLT 77, I would be greatly interrested in and greatly appreciative for receiving. Hell i might even send you some MD/2020 I think we need an anti ISREAL MD/2020
    PROTEST. Go down to our favority PALISTIAN and git some MD/2020, AND CONSUME IT ON THE AIR, IN THE AIR, SOMEWHERE.

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